New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Mr.Flibble]

As said before, the To7 and TSE models looks the same, but inside they are different
The video has the logo of TSE (Tongsheng) the bike has the logo of Aikema, which is related to TSE
The connection is that all 3 firms are located in Suzhou, so maybe To7 is a small group of former Tongsheng employees, that use the same network. But this is only speculation as long as there is no confirmation of this assumption

It could be the Tongsheng factory is making them for To7?

It's not unheard of for large companies to manufacture for smaller ones, and steal their ideas - especially in China.

 

[pxl666]

still no one tested vlcd10 ?

 

[Elinx]

It could be the Tongsheng factory is making them for To7?
....

Ofcourse this is possible too, but as said the inner components of To7 are different from the Tongsheng version.
It could be also a independent spinoff from Tongsheng vs Toseven or TSE vs ToSEven.
Personally I think they are indeed related some way.

The lawsuit was won by Bafang, but never was publiced which patent infringement was involved.
Was it the blue gear clutch? The main change with Tsdz2b is that clutch moved to the maingear.
This was a major drastic change, but minimal improvement.

With no confirmation about "how and what" it is all speculation.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

The lawsuit was won by Bafang, but never was publiced which patent infringement was involved.
Was it the blue gear clutch? The main change with Tsdz2b is that clutch moved to the maingear.
This was a major drastic change, but minimal improvement.

Not convinced that ever happened.
I can not find an original source for the claim.

Remember bafangs are just a copy of that Japanese motor.
The Japanese sued them, but shockingly the Chinese courts decided it wasn't - now the Japanese company is out of business.

The Chinese think ripping off others hard work is fair game

 

[Barfly]

Not convinced that ever happened.
I can not find an original source for the claim.

Remember bafangs are just a copy of that Japanese motor.
The Japanese sued them, but shockingly the Chinese courts decided it wasn't - now the Japanese company is out of business.

The Chinese think ripping off others hard work is fair game

As said before, the To7 and TSE models looks the same, but inside they are different
The video has the logo of TSE (Tongsheng) the bike has the logo of Aikema, which is related to TSE
The connection is that all 3 firms are located in Suzhou, so maybe To7 is a small group of former Tongsheng employees, that use the same network. But this is only speculation as long as there is no confirmation of this assumption

There is confirmation here: Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive? from someone from Toseven.

 

[Elinx]

There is confirmation here: Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive? from someone from Toseven.

As I thought already.
This was happen before with Bafang/Lingbei, but wasn't succesfull.

I hope they can meet their goals for the future.

"the new design is focused on build quality and reliability. They can withstand a lot more power
we have transitioned to UART controller's we intend to keep because its open to community development
we intend to release the motor programming software to the community/ end users and activity engage with them on forums like this"

NB
Better is to discuss this motor in the To7 thread

Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

Hi, I'm looking to get a tongsheng tsdz2 and I came across this alternative from "TOSEVEN" on psw power website https://www.pswpower.com/collections/toseven-mid-drive-motor-kit-15 I asked them the difference/benefit/pros/cons and they replied that it has a different torque sensor and sent the...

endless-sphere.com

 

[I Hate Tax]

I received a TSDZ2B some weeks ago (PSW) and got everything running now. In case anyone is worried about 'guaranteed wobble', there's no wobble on mine. Perhaps it will develop but I feel like I can leave it alone for now. I also haven't flashed the firmware yet because keeping it in assistance level 4 works rather well.

 

[mwalker]

Hey everyone building my first ebike and have a question about lighting and am still not entirely sure which motor to get. There seems to be a lot of variations of the same thing. It's my understanding that the B in TSDZ2B was a separate design with a clutch type mechanism so even without power you could still pedal like a normal bike, but the original manufacturer quit do to a copy right lawsuit and now there's either old stock or someone else making them. Is this right?

I've been eyeballing the TSDZ2B being sold here Eco+ TSDZ2B with Open Source Firmware (250w-750w+). Is there a better option or anything wrong with this?

Finally lights. I emailed cycles.eco but haven't heard back yet. I want to use this light E-BIKE POWER HB STVZO E550 but it's listed as 6 - 12v, 8w and the speed sensor harness is sold as for 6v 0.5a lights. Does this harness plug into the controller in the TSDZ2B casing? Can something be upgraded so the light can get the power it needs? Or is there a parameter that can be set like max power?

 

[Chalo]

am still not entirely sure which motor to get. There seems to be a lot of variations of the same thing. It's my understanding that the B in TSDZ2B

If you've been paying attention and still think a Tongsheng motor is what you want, either you like fixing and replacing things, or you have a problem I can't help you with.

 

[pxl666]

If you've been paying attention and still think a Tongsheng motor is what you want, either you like fixing and replacing things, or you have a problem I can't help you with.

given the price compared to cyc...tsdz2 is as good and reliable as user knows what to do and not... I have several, built many and never broke... ask yourself why

 

[Mr.Flibble]

There is confirmation here: Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive? from someone from Toseven.

Thanks for that you star!!

Same designer explains the similarities.
As far as I can tell the insides are a bit different :
Pauls instead of a sprag clutch
Different type of torque sensor
etc..

But still square tapered
So they did listen that hard to the users

Will be interesting to see what happens when the new Tongsheng is available.
Sort of sounds like they weren't happy with the quality, so they left to found a new company

 

[Mr.Flibble]

If you've been paying attention and still think a Tongsheng motor is what you want, either you like fixing and replacing things, or you have a problem I can't help you with.

If you abuse it like a Bafang HD hooligan, yes it will break.
Use it like a cyclist, and it will be fine.

 

[I Hate Tax]

^ During my research I noticed that many people install a TSDZ2 on mountain bikes or sporty bikes. I'm sure this goes paired with a more 'intense' biking style. I think it depends where you read. On the UK Pedelec forums, for example, there seem to be more city bike users compared to here on ES. Commuters vs. riders.

After using it, I see how this thing is meant for people who can actually bike and are not very physically hindered. It adds power to what you are already doing (pedaling). The throttle part kind of defeats the whole purpose. It almost seems like a post-design afterthought: "people want throttle so let's give it". I don't know enough about the history of tsdz2 or the manufacturer to say that. It just seems like a way to get more potential customers to consider tsdz2.

That said it always pays to be prepared for an issue at some point.

 

[mwalker]

If you've been paying attention and still think a Tongsheng motor is what you want, either you like fixing and replacing things, or you have a problem I can't help you with.

I haven't been paying attention, only have read enough to be a little familiar. For context this will be going on a MTB that hauls a cooler. It seemed to check all boxes:

• It's mid drive
• It can be pedaled if/when I run out of power
• It has a torque sensor

I don't plan on using a throttle, only looking for some assistance to make cycling more enjoyable XC (with gear). Is there something you'd recommend that's better suited for this?

Anyone have any input on the lights?

 

[Elinx]

....

Anyone have any input on the lights?

You can't use 8W load. The power given by the controller is 6V max. 0,5A (3W)
If you want more power, best is directly from battery with a DC-DC converter.

See this chart too. Bafang is 6V 0,5A too and not compatible

 

[mwalker]

You can't use 8W load. The power given by the controller is 6V max. 0,5A (3W)
If you want more power, best is directly from battery with a DC-DC converter.

Thanks! That's what I was afraid of. I'll see if I can find another one or just go directly to battery like you say.

 

[Blacklite]

I haven't been paying attention, only have read enough to be a little familiar. For context this will be going on a MTB that hauls a cooler. It seemed to check all boxes:

• It's mid drive
• It can be pedaled if/when I run out of power
• It has a torque sensor

I don't plan on using a throttle, only looking for some assistance to make cycling more enjoyable XC (with gear). Is there something you'd recommend that's better suited for this?

Anyone have any input on the lights?

I love the TSDZ2, but not sure it’s the right option if you’re towing something heavy. It’s not incredibly powerful. It can be modded for more power; but you also probably want to do some heat dissipation modifications if you do that.

Saying all that, your options really are the TSDZ2 or one of the Bafang series. The tongsheng has torque sensing and a very natural bicycle feeling. The Bafangs have more grunt and I would say are a bit more robust. Either can be pedalled without power.

 

[sqeeezy]

^ During my research I noticed that many people install a TSDZ2 on mountain bikes or sporty bikes. I'm sure this goes paired with a more 'intense' biking style. I think it depends where you read. On the UK Pedelec forums, for example, there seem to be more city bike users compared to here on ES. Commuters vs. riders.

After using it, I see how this thing is meant for people who can actually bike and are not very physically hindered. It adds power to what you are already doing (pedaling). The throttle part kind of defeats the whole purpose. It almost seems like a post-design afterthought: "people want throttle so let's give it". I don't know enough about the history of tsdz2 or the manufacturer to say that. It just seems like a way to get more potential customers to consider tsdz2.

That said it always pays to be prepared for an issue at some point.

I fitted a TSDZ2 to a hybrid Giant because that's what I had already. I do 3 trips a week, 10km down, at difference of 500m altitude, and pedal back up again. Next I converted a Rockrider 8.2 mtb because I read that it'd been done already and it was 200€ second-hand. In town I find the throttle is handy for a quick getaway, but for me it's indispensable on the mule track to my house, the last 500m or so. For 35 years I've been leaving my car or motorbike at the parking and carrying the shopping on my back, or years ago, with my mule; now I can get it to my house in the panniers, thanks to the throttle. You'd have to see my mule track to understand why.

 

[mwalker]

I love the TSDZ2, but not sure it’s the right option if you’re towing something heavy. It’s not incredibly powerful. It can be modded for more power; but you also probably want to do some heat dissipation modifications if you do that.

Saying all that, your options really are the TSDZ2 or one of the Bafang series. The tongsheng has torque sensing and a very natural bicycle feeling. The Bafangs have more grunt and I would say are a bit more robust. Either can be pedalled without power.

The Eco Cycles TSDZ2 says it's rated at 250-750w (vs the TSDZ2 on Amazon saying 500w... what does yours do?) plus they add some passive cooling mods and a pressed bearing. I'm going to stick with a 48v battery so hoping it has enough oomph, but really want a torque sensor.

I was looking at the Bosch Cargo motors last night, but that'd probably be twice as expensive when all is said and done (before batteries), and I was having a hard time figuring out if the models I could find were their new Smart System units or not. I think I can adjust the torque sensor on the TSDZ2 to run like one if I'm not happy with it.

Do you have problems climbing steep hills?

 

[I Hate Tax]

Do you have problems climbing steep hills?

Can't imagine hills being an issue really. On max assist you can basically ride up with 0 effort, and it's almost the same on level 3, just a little slower with a tiny bit more effort. (still fast, just not as fast as max)
I haven't broken a sweat biking since I installed the motor. (48 V 500 W)

I was afraid I would not like it, or have issues with it, the stock firmware, etc. etc. In hindsight this seems absurd. I can't imagine anyone not liking this.

But what about when you are hauling your cooler. I hope someone has an answer. My feeling tells me the tsdz2 will be fine for it., especially with heat mod.

Here's someone who uses it to transport their children (average 5 y.o. weighs about 20 kg): Bakfiets cargo bike with a TSDZ2 mid-motor

After riding our "new" bike for a bit more than three month and 750km I can confidently say that we really enjoy the ride, the motor works well and is really powerful. We can get up (almost) any hill, fully loaded. The 700Wh battery lasts about 60km, riding mostly at the highest assist level

Thinking about your situation, if you're hauling all/most of the time, a bafang seems the simplest way to reduce the effort. Hauling things doesn't really bring me joy in riding, so I wouldn't care how a it feels, or if it's fun. Just get me from here to yonder.

For example, I've tried 2 hub motor bikes and the tsdz2 blows both of them out of the water. But - if the hub bikes haul better, and I'm hauling every day, I'd choose a hub bike. As other posters have said, apparently the bafang is a bit more beasty. It can enable "ghost pedaling".

That said, max assist on the TSDZ2 also feels like ghost pedaling to me.

Just my 2 cents since I saw no reply yet

 

[Olek.x]

Looks like 350w maximum and only 36v.......... Let us know when they list one with 30a and 52v!

Sorry it's taken almost 7 years but its ready

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor

DM01 E-bike Mid-Drive Motor. It has a light wheight, high durability and low maintenance. Equipped with Torque Sensor / Cadence Sensor.

to7motor.com

 

[csbike]

Hi all,
I am sorry if my question already has an answer here. I've recently resumed using my TSDZ2 ebike and I would like to upgrade the firmware to the opensource one by casainho and others, and I also have the material to build the custom display described here: OpenSourceEBike.github.io/build_display.md at main · OpenSourceEBike/OpenSourceEBike.github.io

But, I have now seen here:
OpenSourceEBike.github.io/index.md at main · OpenSourceEBike/OpenSourceEBike.github.io
that there is also the possibility of building a wireless interface to the controller.

However, further investigation led me to read that both the above projects are now deprecated. I am now at a loss as I do not want to embark on building something that has been superseded by something better.

So my question is: what should I do if I am starting from a stock 2019 TSDZ2? Ideally, I would like to use a Garmin Edge 820 as a wireless display and have possibly a wireless remote if I cannot control the bike directly from the edge.

Thank you everyone for your understanding.

Dave

 

[sysrq]

To get back to the topic I was refering to:
The core subject here was motor capacility and burnout.

42T, creates cause for concern of motor burnout.
That's assuming people drive like idiots and don't shift enough...

Yes yes, we all know we all know better. But my point is about the general design...
42T puts a lot of responsibility on the rider and we all know "the average joe" is not thát responsible

Didn't shift enough only during the first ride to see what the motor is capable of. Judging by the sound it was struggling when riding short moderate hill while standing on pedals leading to believe there is a need to down shift and always use higher cadence (around 80 rpm). So there is no way to tell if the motor was starting to overheat during that one time.

 

[sysrq]

Hey everyone building my first ebike and have a question about lighting and am still not entirely sure which motor to get. There seems to be a lot of variations of the same thing. It's my understanding that the B in TSDZ2B was a separate design with a clutch type mechanism so even without power you could still pedal like a normal bike, but the original manufacturer quit do to a copy right lawsuit and now there's either old stock or someone else making them. Is this right?

According to pedelecs.de the drag on TSDZ2 is 0.8Nm and on the TSDZ2B it's 1.2Nm despite the fact that it's advertised as easier to pedal unassisted just like a normal bicycle.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

I'm trying to figure out if I'm having the blue nylon gear issue. I just brought my bike out as it sat in the basement for the winter. The first ride was smooth but today's second ride the chain fell off the front ring. After the chain was set properly back over the front ring, I noticed pedaling was less smooth and had a lot more resistance. On my way home, I shifted at some point and then the bike wouldn't allow me to pedal forward anymore with the motor assist on or off. I was able to walk the bike back home which was fortunately only a few blocks.

Does anyone have any ideas if this is the blue nylon gear issue or could it be something else?