New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[csbike]

Hi all,
I read in this thread that the motor shuts down when cadence exceeds 90rpms. Yet I am almost sure I have pedalled faster than that and the motor was still helping me. I am using the stock firmware. is the 90rpm limit a "feature" of the custom firmware?the

I will test again, but in the meantime, can you tell me how this should work?

thanks

 

[jimmyfergus]

Hi all,
I read in this thread that the motor shuts down when cadence exceeds 90rpms. Yet I am almost sure I have pedalled faster than that and the motor was still helping me. I am using the stock firmware. is the 90rpm limit a "feature" of the custom firmware?the

I will test again, but in the meantime, can you tell me how this should work?

thanks

With default firmware mine definitely tailed off heavily at ~90rpm, and with the FOSS firmware default config. I didn't realize that I was a fairly high-cadence rider until it kept giving up before I wanted to change gear. It turns out I like to cruise at ~80-90 and when working hard may go to 100-110.

 

[knutselmaaster]

The max rotation speed of any electric motor is indicated for a certain (nominal) voltage. Raising the voltage raises the rotation speed (proportionally).
The 90rpm is at nominal voltage (36v, 48v)
When the battery is fully charged, the voltage will be higher, so also the RPM of the motor.
Example (for the 36v version of the motor), 90rpm @36v will give (90/36x42) 105rpm when the battery is full.

 

[mctubster]

Hi!Anyone know what is the difference between the two TSDZ2 48V controllers ,structurally(15A and 18A)?Mosfets,shunt, capacitors?
I bought one of 48V750W, but the controller is 15A.
The 15A model is 13a +\- by programming(https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&hilit=controller+18A&start=700).That means 48x13 is an 624W motor.

According to these, the seller deceived me?

From a new wiki I am working on ...

There are many TSDZ2 packages available, however there are only two hardware versions of the mid-drive motor and two wiring options to connect to it. The rest of the differences are different displays and accessories like throttles and brake levers.

No matter the advertised power output of the motor, eg 250W, 350W, 650W and so on - they are all the same hardware - the controller inside the mid-drive motor is the same regardless of the voltage of the motor - the only hardware difference is the number of windings within the physical motor, so that the RPM of the 36V and 48V motors are similar at their rated operating voltage.

 

[wpenner]

My friends TSDZ2 appears to have a female connector coming from the motor and a color 850c display. Has anyone else seen this configuration? It is the same type of connector as on my TSDZ2.

I'd like to flash it with custom firmware, but i don't want it to end up inoperable. I don't even know if the pinout on the connector is the same.

 

[mctubster]

Today I was out for a ride and the motor started making a loud grinding sound and there was significant loss of power. The assist was still noticeable at each level though. i stopped and got off the bike and scratched my head then got on the bike and the noise had gone. Only done 200 miles on it. Is this a defective motor?

Potentially you have damaged the blue gear. I don't understand myself how it can be slightly damaged, but then work OK again.

For example, if I push my bike backwards while the motor is energised, sometimes when I ride forward again I get a clunking noise and bad sensation through the pedals. If I stop pedalling for a few seconds and start again it goes away. I suspect my blue gear is slightly damaged and pushing it backwards seems to mis-align it ... anyway just a theory, I haven't pulled it apart as I can't afford the time to wait for parts etc - I even have a spare, but it is in a different country in storage!

 

[mctubster]

I’ve just ordered a 48v battery for my 36v TSDZ2. What motor type do I select In the opensource software ? Standard 36v ?

Yes, standard 36V. You are essentially overdriving the motor by having a higher voltage, resulting in higher RPM. Be careful you do not overpower the motor, ie run at high currents for an extended period of time or it will overheat and potentially demagnetise.

 

[manoz]

Today I was out for a ride and the motor started making a loud grinding sound and there was significant loss of power. The assist was still noticeable at each level though. i stopped and got off the bike and scratched my head then got on the bike and the noise had gone. Only done 200 miles on it. Is this a defective motor?

Potentially you have damaged the blue gear. I don't understand myself how it can be slightly damaged, but then work OK again.

For example, if I push my bike backwards while the motor is energised, sometimes when I ride forward again I get a clunking noise and bad sensation through the pedals. If I stop pedalling for a few seconds and start again it goes away. I suspect my blue gear is slightly damaged and pushing it backwards seems to mis-align it ... anyway just a theory, I haven't pulled it apart as I can't afford the time to wait for parts etc - I even have a spare, but it is in a different country in storage!

well I managed to replicate the noise again today. What I had done was accelerate out of the saddle, something I would do all the time on my normal bike. I think putting all my weight on one pedal rather then apply pressure progressively aggravated the torque sensor and it was having none of it. I got off the bike and switched it off and let it relax for a minute and when I got back on the noise was gone. I've ordered a brass gear anyway. Don't really understand why they put a nylon gear in it.

 

[mctubster]

well I managed to replicate the noise again today. What I had done was accelerate out of the saddle, something I would do all the time on my normal bike. I think putting all my weight on one pedal rather then apply pressure progressively aggravated the torque sensor and it was having none of it. I got off the bike and switched it off and let it relax for a minute and when I got back on the noise was gone. I've ordered a brass gear anyway. Don't really understand why they put a nylon gear in it.

Likely two reasons. Deliberate point of failure (instead of breaking something more expensive). Noise

 

[manoz]

well I managed to replicate the noise again today. What I had done was accelerate out of the saddle, something I would do all the time on my normal bike. I think putting all my weight on one pedal rather then apply pressure progressively aggravated the torque sensor and it was having none of it. I got off the bike and switched it off and let it relax for a minute and when I got back on the noise was gone. I've ordered a brass gear anyway. Don't really understand why they put a nylon gear in it.

Likely two reasons. Deliberate point of failure (instead of breaking something more expensive). Noise

so do you think I am better off ordering a nylon gear? I plan on doing lots of miles and want something more durable but if it can wear out other more expensive parts then brass gear doesn't seem like a good idea?

 

[chinedooo]

Does anybody know what version of the motor this is?
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p113/TSDZ2.html#/

It's the FOS FIRMWARE READY TSDZ2. Also can anybody tell me what the difference is between all the different versions of this motor?

 

[mctubster]

so do you think I am better off ordering a nylon gear? I plan on doing lots of miles and want something more durable but if it can wear out other more expensive parts then brass gear doesn't seem like a good idea?

The working theory is that the nylon gear fails because of too much torque - the opensource firmware allows you to set a current ramp (from mem stock is 2A/s) ... so the motor doesn't over torque the nylon gear while the motor and bike are at a near standstill.

I have my TSDZ2 on a 45KG cargo bike, normally carrying 50KG of cargo + me. On steep hills my motor gets up to 650W. Have done 1500KM so far - using the original nylon gear. As I mentioned earlier something is going on inside my motor, maybe it is the nylon gear, maybe it isn't but I am leaving along for now.

A lot of people have installed the metal gear and commented that it is louder. Personally I would stick with the nylon gear because of noise, but if you want longer life maybe the metal gear makes sense ... brass is a softer alloy so it will ideally fail before steel.

 

[mctubster]

Does anybody know what version of the motor this is?
https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p113/TSDZ2.html#/

It's the FOS FIRMWARE READY TSDZ2. Also can anybody tell me what the difference is between all the different versions of this motor?

ElectrifyBike have had the TSDZ2 wired from factory to work with the THROTTLE, BRAKE CUTOFFS AND KT-LCD3 DISPLAY.

This means that you must flash the motor and display with the opensource firmware to get it to work.
It also means you don't need to do any soldering to make the cable between the KT-LCD3

I believe you still need a flashing kit to install the opensource firmware. If you want the opensource firmware I would get them to flash it for you ... 0.18.2 is nice and stable and not worry about updating it again

 

[Rydon]

My friends TSDZ2 appears to have a female connector coming from the motor and a color 850c display. Has anyone else seen this configuration? It is the same type of connector as on my TSDZ2.

I'd like to flash it with custom firmware, but i don't want it to end up inoperable. I don't even know if the pinout on the connector is the same.

Yes, this is a version of the motor that is pin compatible with the Bafang mid-drive 1 to 4 cable, Bafang displays, throttles, brake sensors etc. This is the version of the TSDZ2 that Electrify Bike Co sells. If you want a plug & play version of the KT-LCD3 that requires no splicing to work on her motor, you can find it here. https://www.electrifybike.com/store...ible_OpenSource_(FOS)_Firmware_Upgrade.html#/

 

[sysrq]

Is there a way to rotate the screen on a software level in XH-18 display, so that it can be used with different handle bars. Might not be enough memory to implement.

 

[wpenner]

My friends TSDZ2 appears to have a female connector coming from the motor and a color 850c display. Has anyone else seen this configuration? It is the same type of connector as on my TSDZ2.

I'd like to flash it with custom firmware, but i don't want it to end up inoperable. I don't even know if the pinout on the connector is the same.

Yes, this is a version of the motor that is pin compatible with the Bafang mid-drive 1 to 4 cable, Bafang displays, throttles, brake sensors etc. This is the version of the TSDZ2 that Electrify Bike Co sells. If you want a plug & play version of the KT-LCD3 that requires no splicing to work on her motor, you can find it here. https://www.electrifybike.com/store...ible_OpenSource_(FOS)_Firmware_Upgrade.html#/

Thanks, i forgot that you program it through the brake cable which will be the same pinout. Does anyone know if the firmware on the 850c version or the motor is custom? I mostly need to change the startup voltage so he can run 14s correctly. He toasted the clutch in the blue gear because he was told to run the throttle for a few seconds to lower the battery voltage.

If i dump the firmware files, is anyone willing to help me out by taking a look at them? Do i have to dump separate file for the three different tabs?

 

[Rydon]

My friends TSDZ2 appears to have a female connector coming from the motor and a color 850c display. Has anyone else seen this configuration? It is the same type of connector as on my TSDZ2.

I'd like to flash it with custom firmware, but i don't want it to end up inoperable. I don't even know if the pinout on the connector is the same.

Yes, this is a version of the motor that is pin compatible with the Bafang mid-drive 1 to 4 cable, Bafang displays, throttles, brake sensors etc. This is the version of the TSDZ2 that Electrify Bike Co sells. If you want a plug & play version of the KT-LCD3 that requires no splicing to work on her motor, you can find it here. https://www.electrifybike.com/store...ible_OpenSource_(FOS)_Firmware_Upgrade.html#/

Thanks, i forgot that you program it through the brake cable which will be the same pinout. Does anyone know if the firmware on the 850c version or the motor is custom? I mostly need to change the startup voltage so he can run 14s correctly. He toasted the clutch in the blue gear because he was told to run the throttle for a few seconds to lower the battery voltage.

If i dump the firmware files, is anyone willing to help me out by taking a look at them? Do i have to dump separate file for the three different tabs?

Programming is done through the speed sensor connector. The 850C stock firmware is different. It supports watts on the 850C. That is the only difference I know but there may be others. I don't know anyone that knows how to modify the stock firmware for 52v support. The old mods don't work. If you load the 52v stock firmware the watts on the 850c will read wrong but the 52v battery will work. No great fix for this at this time that I am aware of. You can charge the battery with a 48v charger to keep it in the range that works.

Hopefully the 850c version of the Open Source firmware will be released soon and then it will all work - and a lot more.

 

[Retrorockit]

Today I was out for a ride and the motor started making a loud grinding sound and there was significant loss of power. The assist was still noticeable at each level though. i stopped and got off the bike and scratched my head then got on the bike and the noise had gone. Only done 200 miles on it. Is this a defective motor?

Potentially you have damaged the blue gear. I don't understand myself how it can be slightly damaged, but then work OK again.

For example, if I push my bike backwards while the motor is energised, sometimes when I ride forward again I get a clunking noise and bad sensation through the pedals. If I stop pedalling for a few seconds and start again it goes away. I suspect my blue gear is slightly damaged and pushing it backwards seems to mis-align it ... anyway just a theory, I haven't pulled it apart as I can't afford the time to wait for parts etc - I even have a spare, but it is in a different country in storage!

This sounds like a one way clutch sticking either in a locked, or unlocked state, and then locking too late. Pushing the bike backwards, which is not a normal mode of operation, will tend to lock any one way clutches. If they stay locked there will be a different feel,and maybe a pop when they finally unlock. A one way clutch that is sticking "open" can engage late when shaft speed is mismatched. It should engage the minute one shaft goes faster than the other. A delay there can make a pop also. Either a damaged part or lubrication issue is most likely.

 

[wpenner]

My friends TSDZ2 appears to have a female connector coming from the motor and a color 850c display. Has anyone else seen this configuration? It is the same type of connector as on my TSDZ2.

I'd like to flash it with custom firmware, but i don't want it to end up inoperable. I don't even know if the pinout on the connector is the same.

Yes, this is a version of the motor that is pin compatible with the Bafang mid-drive 1 to 4 cable, Bafang displays, throttles, brake sensors etc. This is the version of the TSDZ2 that Electrify Bike Co sells. If you want a plug & play version of the KT-LCD3 that requires no splicing to work on her motor, you can find it here. https://www.electrifybike.com/store...ible_OpenSource_(FOS)_Firmware_Upgrade.html#/

Thanks, i forgot that you program it through the brake cable which will be the same pinout. Does anyone know if the firmware on the 850c version or the motor is custom? I mostly need to change the startup voltage so he can run 14s correctly. He toasted the clutch in the blue gear because he was told to run the throttle for a few seconds to lower the battery voltage.

If i dump the firmware files, is anyone willing to help me out by taking a look at them? Do i have to dump separate file for the three different tabs?

Programming is done through the speed sensor connector. The 850C stock firmware is different. It supports watts on the 850C. That is the only difference I know but there may be others. I don't know anyone that knows how to modify the stock firmware for 52v support. The old mods don't work. If you load the 52v stock firmware the watts on the 850c will read wrong but the 52v battery will work. No great fix for this at this time that I am aware of. You can charge the battery with a 48v charger to keep it in the range that works.

Hopefully the 850c version of the Open Source firmware will be released soon and then it will all work - and a lot more.

Thanks again for your help. I don't really want to have to figure out how to flash the 850c also. I wonder if I can search for Value "78 15" in the motor firmware as per the guide below. Might not be on line 4000 as it sounds like the firmware is a bit custom. Either that or maybe someone has 52v firmware that works with the 850c.

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

 

[famichiki]

I'm about to order a kit from PSWPower with the VLCD5 display but the more I read the more confused I get.

If I use the VLCD5 can I still flash the firmware? Would I be missing anything important that only using the KT-LCD3 can do, or can I still change any inaccessible settings by reflashing the controller? For the moment I don't care about the additional data displayed.

Is cashinho's the main and latest version? Can I use that with the VLCD5 or do I need one of the other forks?

I've seen a java configurator mentioned. Does this work with the latest firmware, or does it only support it's own packaged firmware version? Can all those same settings be adjusted in a config file somewhere anyway?

If anyone can help me figure this out that would be fantastic, cheers!

 

[Bartman]

Has anyone done a river crossing with a TSDZ2 equiped bike. I do a lot of mountainbiking with mine and have gone into puddles, but never been in a situation where the water comes up to the bottom bracket. I’d be worried about it shorting out the two wires under the right hand cover. I have a weekend adventure with water crossings coming up soon . Thoughts ?

 

[wpenner]

I'm about to order a kit from PSWPower with the VLCD5 display but the more I read the more confused I get.

If I use the VLCD5 can I still flash the firmware? Would I be missing anything important that only using the KT-LCD3 can do, or can I still change any inaccessible settings by reflashing the controller? For the moment I don't care about the additional data displayed.

Is cashinho's the main and latest version? Can I use that with the VLCD5 or do I need one of the other forks?

I've seen a java configurator mentioned. Does this work with the latest firmware, or does it only support it's own packaged firmware version? Can all those same settings be adjusted in a config file somewhere anyway?

If anyone can help me figure this out that would be fantastic, cheers!

I have this same setup. You need to use the version linked below with VLCD5. It does not require flashing the LCD. Almost all the same features as this version, but not quite as much feedback on LCD. For example the LCD will not show you Voltage as a numerical value or how many watts are currently being used, but the bike will still ride much nicer higher RPM and custom power limit etc.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98281&start=225

 

[casainho]

I'm about to order a kit from PSWPower with the VLCD5 display but the more I read the more confused I get.

If I use the VLCD5 can I still flash the firmware? Would I be missing anything important that only using the KT-LCD3 can do, or can I still change any inaccessible settings by reflashing the controller? For the moment I don't care about the additional data displayed.

Is cashinho's the main and latest version? Can I use that with the VLCD5 or do I need one of the other forks?

I've seen a java configurator mentioned. Does this work with the latest firmware, or does it only support it's own packaged firmware version? Can all those same settings be adjusted in a config file somewhere anyway?

If anyone can help me figure this out that would be fantastic, cheers!

It works for KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD:

I just released the very first working version for Bafang 850C LCD -- follow the guide on wiki to know how to wire to TSDZ2 motor and download and flash the firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-the-Flexible-OpenSource-firmware

Note that black vertical lines are due to the mobile camera recording frequency.

 

[Frans-willem]

Would anyone know what function the "svm table" in the motor controller in the open source firmware is supposed to be caching ?
I'm trying to make sense of the motor code, and I think it should have been a sine-wave, but it appears to be distinctly different from a sine-wave when plotted :-/

 

[casainho]

Would anyone know what function the "svm table" in the motor controller in the open source firmware is supposed to be caching ?
I'm trying to make sense of the motor code, and I think it should have been a sine-wave, but it appears to be distinctly different from a sine-wave when plotted :-/

Ask on firmware thread.