New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[knutselmaaster]

Often a full outer cable even fits between the bottom bracket and the motor.
Push the cable against the right side of the motor, slide the motor half way into the bottom bracket, move the outer cable a bit inward to make it slide over the screw holes of the motor housing, insert the motor all the way, fix the motor.

 

[Retrorockit]

I have just joined the forum and I am hoping someone can help me with a technical question regarding the TSDS2 mid drive unit.

I ordered 3 units from China a while ago and have only just installed the second one now. All three were to be installed in "standard" bikes, all with 7 hub-gears and internal rear brake by Shimano.

The first installation went well and the rear brake works as it should with back-peddling, but with the last two units, the crank is freewheeling making the drive sprocket stationary and therefore I can not engage the brake.

Are there different models to suit de-railer gear systems? I presume that is what I have ended up with?

Does anyone have a quick fix for this problem?

There are 2 types of Shimano IGH internal rear brakes. The roller brake which is cable operated, and the cruiser type coaster brake which is back pedal operated. The coaster brakes TSDZ2 has a solid pedal shaft with no clutch to allow this. The other IGH brake types are the disc brake, and no brake (rim brake) type which is the roller type with a cover in place of the brake and can fit narrower frames due to that. I think installing the correct shaft will fix it. But newer TSDZ2 may have a narrower shaft with 1 bearing and a seal instead of 2 bearings and a seal on the rh drive side. The PAS torque sensor is attached to that shaft so be sure you know how to deal with that before taking it apart. I haven't opened mine up yet so look around in the forum.

 

[Retrorockit]

I don't think changing the entire blue gear is a good solution because the issue is likely to reappear

Note that I had the same problem with a metal gear and during a hot summer in Spain. It dissapear suddenly for a mysterious reason

If the slipping is between the sleeve and the clutch, I think glue (which one) is the only solution

I would like to understand what is the sleeve... I tried the translator but still I can understand.

There are only 2 parts here, the blue gear and the pinion gear (each of them costs about 16 euros on Aliexpress), and the problem seems to be in one of them. In my case, I exchanged the blue gear to a new one and the problem is solved (at least for now).

But yes, I would like to understand where is the slipping...

1. the blue gear

That's some interesting infos !
So there should not be any grease between the hf1216 and the shaft
And the hf1216 itself could possibly be an issue
What would you consider to be the best long term solution ?

Since it's not sealed, and it has to turn free sometimes, lubricant is needed. But I would be careful what is used there. Too thick a grease could interfere with it and be hard for the rollers to squeeze the grease out of the way when they need to contact the shaft, and any type of Teflon, moly, or graphite low friction grease would be asking for trouble. Sprag manufacturers advise against any extreme prssure EP greases. So thinner simple lubricants seems best. FC12 is an interchange number for this size clutch.
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/fc12(x)-19151
https://www.bocabearings.com/products/hf1216(x)-11016
This get's a wider choice of brands. This one is14N.m torque, I've seen others 12.2N.m or unrated so they vary in strength. It seems the RC helo guys have a lot of trouble with these also.

 

[RicMcK]

Another option: the outside motor case can be removed from the the unit. This will provide more clearance to slide it in place. Or replace the cable housing with a thin BB cable guide.

 

[skestans]

Another option: the outside motor case can be removed from the the unit. This will provide more clearance to slide it in place. Or replace the cable housing with a thin BB cable guide. 092a6397-8669-4dd1-b710-dfe486598060_1.f40ef78303ef5d44ae9d980e36e56332.jpeg

Do you put the cover back in place after the motor is slid in place or do you keep it off permanently? What about water and dust then, isn’t the cover there to keep it all out?

Do these thin bb cable guides have a particular name or they’re generic?

 

[Retrorockit]

With the guide on, it's too tight for the TSDZ2 to slide in and fit the way it should. But I can't remove the guide either because I need the rear derailleur.
So, what do I do?

Replace the wire with full wire guide from the shifter, then route it above the bb-shell.

I did the same thing with mine. Mine was inside the frame and I brought it out the top of the frame and over the BB behind the gear casing. Full length housing.
https://electricbike.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=97888&d=1575484709
If your battery is on the downtube you could hang the cable under the side of the battery with brackets off of the water bottle bolts.

 

[cream]

Had a similar problem on my bike. I routed the brake line just behind the TSDZ2 bracket on the non driving side. For rear derailleur, I used a fully sleeved cable and routed on the back of the gear housing (driving side). Never had any problems.

https://imgur.com/a/ynpi8r5

 

[RicMcK]

Another option: the outside motor case can be removed from the the unit. This will provide more clearance to slide it in place. Or replace the cable housing with a thin BB cable guide. 092a6397-8669-4dd1-b710-dfe486598060_1.f40ef78303ef5d44ae9d980e36e56332.jpeg

Do you put the cover back in place after the motor is slid in place or do you keep it off permanently? What about water and dust then, isn’t the cover there to keep it all out?

Do these thin bb cable guides have a particular name or they’re generic?

Yes put the cover back on! The cable guide is generic. It should come with a short screw. You may have to trim the length of the screw. Locate it in place. You can file down the cable guide to make it thinner if you need to.

 

[edd021]

Hi, thank you all for contributing to such a cool project. Sorry, I have a question off topic. I'm a bit new to this motor but I have it installed with a 850c screen, both flashed and everything seems to work fine, except the throttle control, I can see that the system is recognizing it on the information screen, when I push it, i can see the values going up from 0 to 255 but the motor doesn't run. I am guessing I have something installed wrong or a setting wrong but has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for any help.

 

[casainho]

Hi, thank you all for contributing to such a cool project. Sorry, I have a question off topic. I'm a bit new to this motor but I have it installed with a 850c screen, both flashed and everything seems to work fine, except the throttle control, I can see that the system is recognizing it on the information screen, when I push it, i can see the values going up from 0 to 255 but the motor doesn't run. I am guessing I have something installed wrong or a setting wrong but has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks for any help.

Make sure you have the throttle enabled on the configuration about motor temperature sensor.

 

[edd021]

Thank you, that worked like a charm. I found the note in the Wiki afterwards as well, I should have read that better!

 

[hetm4n]

Hello! I am currently using the kt-lcd3 to tsdz2 display with open firmware. I want to connect SW102.
Cable colors are listed on the github website:


In the manual, the cables have a different color.

manual link : http://m.le-sure.com/Private/Files/5718245685f0b09261d8.pdf
How to finally connect it correctly? which color description should I use?

 

[windburner]

I want to connect SW102.

Cable colors are listed on the github website: ... In the manual, the cables have a different color.

How to finally connect it correctly? which color description should I use?

When I connected the SW102, I followed the connection color scheme as given in the Wiki. I definitely remember feeling weird about connecting "Red" to "Black"!

 

[ilu]

So all the displays have completely different wiring colours, but do the pins in the connectors have default functions?

If I use this cable, should it work with KT-LCD3 as well as with Bafang displays?

 

[eyebyesickle]

So all the displays have completely different wiring colours, but do the pins in the connectors have default functions?

If I use this cable, should it work with KT-LCD3 as well as with Bafang displays?

This converts any 5 pin bafang style display to tsdz
6 pin display.

If the KTLCD3 has the bafang pinout, yes, but to my knowledge, the only ones that do are from electrify bike co.

Just because it has the same 5 pin higo connector, doesn't mean it has the bafang style pinout... You have to make sure of that...

 

[mctubster]

So all the displays have completely different wiring colours, but do the pins in the connectors have default functions?

If I use this cable, should it work with KT-LCD3 as well as with Bafang displays?

This converts any 5 pin bafang style display to tsdz
6 pin display.

If the KTLCD3 has the bafang pinout, yes, but to my knowledge, the only ones that do are from electrify bike co.

Just because it has the same 5 pin higo connector, doesn't mean it has the bafang style pinout... You have to make sure of that...

Yes unless your motor / display is from Electrify Bike co you should not use this cable (unless you rewire inside your motor to suit)

Aside I am currently using a LCD3 with the 5 pin bafang style connector, which I spliced into a 8pin tsdz2 cable following the wiki. I want to switch to a 850c at some point, and asked, but was told the pinout is different - I haven't worked through it for myself yet. I guess it depends if the LCD3 is bafang compatible out of the box so to speak.

I have 4 more weeks of glorious leave left, so will likely do this in the coming weeks ... that is if I can find Shimano Roller Brake grease in Nelson, NZ

Cheers

 

[ilu]

Yes unless your motor / display is from Electrify Bike co you should not use this cable (unless you rewire inside your motor to suit)

Aside I am currently using a LCD3 with the 5 pin bafang style connector, which I spliced into a 8pin tsdz2 cable following the wiki. I want to switch to a 850c at some point, and asked, but was told the pinout is different - I haven't worked through it for myself yet. I guess it depends if the LCD3 is bafang compatible out of the box so to speak.

I have 4 more weeks of glorious leave left, so will likely do this in the coming weeks ... that is if I can find Shimano Roller Brake grease in Nelson, NZ

Cheers

Thanks for the info! I have no problem splicing the wire myself, but I prefer the cleanest look whenever possible.

May I ask why do you want to switch to 850c? If I understand correctly, atm LCD3 is the only display that supports the 0.20 OSF version, and I want to try that in my next build.

 

[obcd]

Developers have decided to stop using the LCD3 as it's microcontroller is not having enough flash memory for further code development. The display code base is becoming to big for that display. The new favorites are the 850C and the SW102.
The SW102 has a buildin bluetooth interface so it can connect to a smartphone.
At the moment, the SW102 still has a disadvantage that you have to open it for first time reprogramming.
Hopefully, this will no longer be the case any time soon.

 

[famichiki]

If anyone here is running the VLCD5 with factory firmware, would you please be able to go into the torque signal service menu and tell me what readings you get? I have a range of 98 - 190.

Both the initial zero torque reading & the maximum reading you can achieve with your body weight etc.

I have posted details how to check this on the VLCD5 firmware thread here..

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98281&p=1518298#p1518298

 

[hego]

What a pity, the KT-LCD3 horizontal and monochrome is more friendly and visible as others.
I like it.

Cheers

 

[izeman]

Can someone please confirm that the controller only is really only good for up to 54.6V (13S fully charged)?
I have bike with 20" wheels and would need higher voltage - or higher RPM so i'd like to use a 14S battery.
Thanks!
BTW: I read that part of the FAQ:

"With our flexible OpenSource firmware, you will able to make any TSDZ2 motor version working with any battery voltage from 24V up to 52V (7S up to 14S battery cells in series)."

Still I'm unsure if this means 52V nominal voltage (14*3.7) and 58.8V fully charged or an undercharged 14S. :wink:

 

[ri53hu]

izeman
hello, i use this battery 52v 17.5Ah
I have no problem.R.

 

[izeman]

izeman
hello, i use this battery 52v 17.5Ah
I have no problem.R.

Thanks. So i will build a 14S battery.

 

[izeman]

Another question: Does the firmware add FOC features? That would eliminate the need of higher voltage for higher rpm.
FAQ says nothing about that.

 

[casainho]

izeman
hello, i use this battery 52v 17.5Ah
I have no problem.R.

Thanks. So i will build a 14S battery.

There is an user testing 15S. So far it seems to work ok.