TSDZ2 with OSF - Recumbent Trike Settings
I am new to the TSDZ2 and this OSF software. So keep this in mind when reading, feedback is appreciated.
UPDATES: I will includes updates to this configuration right here at the top of the note.
3/12/2020 - On motor firmware: 0.5.2 and 850c display firmware: 0.6.3
3/12/2020 -
A. Configuration - Various/Assist without Pedal Rotation: ENABLED - the problem was, when engaging the pedals from a dead stop, or even climbing hills, the assist would not start until the pedals had rotated about 40 degrees (if you consider 360 degrees a full rotation of the pedals). With this enabled the assist starts almost immediately when pressing the pedals. The one 'trick' is that assist will start even if you only press on the pedal, and not even rotate. Like if you are setting on the trike and you rest your feel more heavily on the pedal, the trike will move. So be aware. Holding a brake stops this completely.
B. removed Gear Sensor, system does not seem to need it. My pedaling is more natural with the TSDZ2 than with the Bafang system. So when shifting gears I lighten the pedal stroke naturally.
C. A Recumbent Trike does NOT need a 'Chain Guide Sprocket' or 'Chain Guide Roller'. These are options that vendors offer.
5/1/2020 - added washers as in this post, to reduce wobbles in gears - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105177
6/6/2020 - Recommend you perform the thermal cooling mods - there are several. This includes installing the temperature sensor and setting limits in the OSF configuration. Yes you will lose the throttle. Here is one cooling mod that is pretty easy: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1487260&hilit=boston#p1487260
With weather warming up here I have found my motor getting very hot. I got an infrared thermometer to read the outer case, and temps range from 95 to 127 F. My riding is not radical (usually paved trails) and I change gears to keep the system as stress free as I can. Still, seems too hot. According to others the internal motor temperature is often much higher than the outer case, so it is possible I have damaged the motor already. More testing will tell.
7/25/2020 Update
Cooling modification has been done, including adding heat sink/fins to outer case, Temperature Sensor installed. Temp ranges set: min 160F max: 180F
Updated to OSF version 1.0, and 860c display - recalibrated torque sensor. A few of the settings do not work quite like the prior version, below are notes and settings. Also, I recommend setting the units to: SI , and make all of your entries using that. Then switch to 'Imperial' if you want to use that system. If I had units: Imperial, often making a numeric change would cause that value to jump wildly when I actually tried to save it, and move on to the next value. And example is setting the minimum temperature. If I set it to 160F, upon saving and exiting that value would drop to 138F.
12/5/2020 Update
Changed the rear wheel to a Nuvinci N380 internal geared hub with 21T sprocket, 44T chainring up front, with the Automatic Hub Interface (Harmony?). WARNING: trying to understand which Enviolo parts actually fit together is like pulling teeth. Most dealers do not know. It took a lot of time and research to find the right parts. I had to order them from Germany. But it finally works.
But this system includes a twist grip shifter that is essentially 'shift by wire'. It is all electronic vs their manual hub control interfaces, like their twist grips with two physical wires that push/pull to make the hub interface turn and change your gearing. Runs very smooth. No gear sensor needed. The Automatic interface allows the grip twist shifter to run in a manual or automatic mode. Manual: you just twist it to change from high to low gears. Automatic: start pedaling and twist the grip until you reach a cadence you like, then tap the side button. This system maintains this targeted cadence whether you are climbing or descending. You can also fine tune the cadence control, up or down, in this mode. It works very well for most conditions. I find that if you are on a steep climb it never really gets to the low gear settings you can get when in Manual mode. But for 90% of my riding I just pedal along at a 75 cadence and enjoy the view. It is very nice!
Assist Levels 1 to 10 - the actual values turned out to be quite different (smaller) than prior version
Battery/ - I use a 48 volt battery. My settings are conservative
Max current: 15 amps
Low cut-off: 42 volts
Battery SOC
Reset at voltage: 55.2 volts (I often charge to 80% or 90%, instead of 100%)
Battery total watt hours: 700 – just a ballpark here, my batts are 17.5 AH and 24.5 AH
Motor (conservative values)
Motor voltage: 48
Max current: 15
Current Ramp: 10 amps -
this value eliminated the startup 'shuddering' in the motor/drive train
Min current ADC Step: 1
Field weakening: disable – I do not use high cadence pedaling
Torque Sensor
Assist w/o pedal: enabled - this version does not feel as sensitive as the prior version. Before, lightly pressing on the
pedals, without rotating, started the motor assist. This version 1.0 feels less sensitive, and more rotation and pressure
are needed to have the same effect.
Related to Torque calibration, the readings in 'Technical' seem harder to interpret. Meaning the push of the Right or Left pedal are harder to read in the display. It is hard to clearly tell which pedal is being affected when I rotate the pedals. The prior version was very definitive in this regard.
----- END OF UPDATES -------------
Riding Goals: My riding style is pretty casual. Mainly paved bike paths and gravel trails around the Denver area, of which there are plenty of nice ones. My wife also rides a trike, so we use the trikes as a way to get outside year round, enjoy the trails and scenery, and cover some nice distances. The very top speeds on these bike trails are 20 mph, and normally between 10 and 16 mph. So a top end 25+ mph riding speed on level ground is not my goal. Biking is NOT our primary form of exercise. Also, my knees are not in good shape, so mashing pedals is just no fun for me. I want to ride with light to medium pressure on the pedals. My comfortable cadence is between 70 & 75.
My previous trike has a Bafang BBS02 750 watt motor, and I spent time tuning it, and like riding it very much. The tuned Bafang is now not that much different in feel from the TSDZ2, but it definitely uses more battery. But with the e-assist I can go out and ride 40 miles and enjoy it the whole time. And better yet, afterwards I can still walk, because my knees still work!
I want an e-assist to augment the leg forces, but not require me to crush the pedals to make it all work. I do not want a moped either, the pedaling and spinning is actually very good for my knees/legs. So with that, here goes my process.
Initial Testing - Human power: test riding on level ground at a comfortable cadence of 70 - 75 resulted in about 70 Watts of human power. This is well below the 100 Watts mentioned in the Endless Sphere (ES) discussion. This makes sense, because I am 'sitting down'
while riding. I can provide more force by pressing harder on the pedals, but this is not the way I want to ride.
Installed Components: TSDZ2 48 volt system, 48 volt 17.5AH battery, ICE Adventure trike with full suspension, Big Apple 2.1" tires 26" in rear, 20" up front, TSDZ2 750 watt motor, 42T Wide/Narrow chain ring, 10 speed 11-36 Shimano cassette, no front derailleur, Brake sensors on both brake handles, Gear sensor
Torque Sensor Calibration: I followed the steps here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-calibrate-the-torque-sensor
The interesting points here are that the testing method assumes an upright bike, where the forces are vertical. With a trike you are sitting and peak forces seem to be horizontal, when the pedal is furthest away from your body. Given this, I tried to measure forces/weight using a digital bathroom scale. Awkward at best trying to balance the scale on the pedal and push.... it really did not work. So I pressed on the pedal and developed a 'feel' for that pressure. Then I pressed on the digital scale in the same way. The result being when pushing hard resulted in about 90 lbs of force. Also I did rotate the pedals through 360 degrees to get the ADC values at minimum and maximum, then interpolate the 8 values in between.
What I found was that the ADC curve was much flatter than the values casainho (OSF developer) used. My ADC range is 137 to 160. Using the spreadsheet ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OwM1yURzHkPsrL9uz8oNlX6FHGzw_nr2TolGgUH9oy4/edit#gid=1043461905 ) and weights/ADC (weight in Lbs) I came up with these 'Torque Sensor' values, setting LEFT and RIGHT to the same values:
LEFT & RIGHT values are set the same (weight in Lbs)
Weight 1 / ADC = 0 / 137
Weight 2 / ADC = 6 / 140
Weight 3 / ADC = 13 / 143
Weight 4 / ADC = 24 / 146
Weight 5 / ADC = 35 / 149
Weight 6 / ADC = 44 / 153
Weight 7 / ADC = 66 / 157
Weight 8 / ADC = 81 / 160
Assist Level Settings: The corresponding Assist levels are tuned to my needs (read: my knees!). I would say I feel light pressure on the pedals, depending on the gear I am using. When I feel like the pedal pressure is rising I simply shift to a lower gear.
The result is that for my comfortable cadence of 70 - 75, riding on fairly level ground in Assist level 3 or 4 gives me a speed of between 12 - 15 mph, and assist power of 170 watts. Pedal pressure is light and comfortable but definitely present. I started with higher weight values (100 lbs max) in the 'Torque Sensor' settings, but reduced it to make the knee pressure more comfortable. I rode 20 miles with the 100 lbs maximum weight value (and other default values), and the result was uncomfortable afterwards. More tuning and reduction in pedal pressure was the next step.
The 850c display is great in that it displays 'Human' and 'Assist' power in Watts, so you can clearly see the boosted assistance while riding. My goals are to keep the continuous boosted watts below 400, which is very easy to do. I only see this when climbing very steep inclines AND I mash on the pedals. Staying in a low gear and pedaling comfortably keeps the Watts used down. It may be slow but it gets up the hills, no problem.
Level 1 1.0
Level 2 1.5
Level 3 3.0
Level 4 4.0
Level 5 5.0
Level 6 6.0
Level 7 8.0
Level 8 9.0
Level 9 10.0
I hope this helps in tuning your recumbent trike with the TSDZ2 and OSF
