Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit

[Rix]

Like the new website, it if definately more informative. Torques sounds better, but yah, when searching for torques bikes, I came across alot of websites with "torque" in it, Qulbix will narrow it down a bunch. What does "Qulbix" mean? Or is it just a name?

Rick

Okay, I feel like stooge, DUH!!! Qulbix, isn't pronounced "Kulbicks" its pronounced " cool bikes" I should have caught that, my ES name "Rix" is derived from the possesive tense of my first name Rick as in Rick's Racing or Rick's Rides but RIX for me also means, "Riding In Cross conditions" which applies to my typical ebike ride.

 

[kudos]

Nice write up spinningmagnets!

Makes me want to start a build now........


Kudos

 

[Rix]

Finished an article on the Raptor, PM me if you find any errors that need to be corrected:
http://www.electricbike.com/qulbix-raptor/

Indeed a great article.

Rick

 

[2020freerider]

As always...a very professional write up on Electricbike.com Spinningmagnets!

Greatly appreciated

Cheers from Calgary, AB

 

[E-Fuel]

Very nice article Spinningmangnets.


We're are all developing a new way of looking at bikes.

José

 

[Holbrook]

Hello Offroader, I am trying to select my rear rotor and have a question. Did you order your swing arm made for a 150mm or 165mm dropout with the Cromotor V3? Below you mention-


would use the shimano zee hydraulic brakes front and rear. These brakes have the best reviews and I must say work perfectly with the raptor. I honestly can not see how brakes can ever be made better than these. If using shimano rotors make sure to get a sm-rt66 203 in the rear as the ice tech or xt's will not sit flush with the cromotor2 and your spacing will be off, you can use whatever on the front.

Elbis (AKA Ecruz) used a Shimano Deore XT SM-RT86 MTB Bike Ice Tech 6 bolt disc Brake Rotor 203mm for the rear with a Cromotor and thinks it is ok but his bike is not done yet. I also want to use this Shimano Deore XT SM-RT86 MTB Bike Ice Tech 6 bolt disc Brake Rotor 203mm for the rear with a Cromotor but want to make sure it will work. Please confirm why you don't think it will.

Thanks,
Holbrook

 

[Uschi K.]

Hi Guys,

I´ve tried to use Shimano Deore XT SM-RT86 203mm with a Cromotor and I can tell you that I was not able to make it work. These disc does not align very well with anything else than a normal disc-hub.
Kind regards

Lars

 

[ecruz]

Hi guys I have mine with the two piece icetech rotor. I solved the problem by taking off the adaptor plate on the disk side of the Cromotor and grinding it down a few millimeters. This plate is used to change Cromotors side bolt pattern to a bike rotor 6 bolt pattern. Be careful not to go to far grinding as then the bolts wont have enough depth. Hope that helps others but it can be done. I have my set up with the Shimano Deore XT 6-Bolt Ice-Tech Rotor (203mm), the 165mm swing arm and the Hope Tech Evo M4 Brakes. I also changed all the bolts on the Cromotor and everything else on the bike to titanium gold bolts It looks awesome!

Ecruz

 

[E-Fuel]

Hi guys,

Are you using regen ebraking on your bike?… what do you advise?


Regards

JCA

 

[snellemin]

It's a heavy bike and regen helps on the street. I don't ride fast enough offroad for regen and depend on my brakes(personal preference). I also use a giant 255mm brake rotor for the front.

 

[Offroader]

Hello Offroader, I am trying to select my rear rotor and have a question. Did you order your swing arm made for a 150mm or 165mm dropout with the Cromotor V3? Below you mention-


would use the shimano zee hydraulic brakes front and rear. These brakes have the best reviews and I must say work perfectly with the raptor. I honestly can not see how brakes can ever be made better than these. If using shimano rotors make sure to get a sm-rt66 203 in the rear as the ice tech or xt's will not sit flush with the cromotor2 and your spacing will be off, you can use whatever on the front.

Elbis (AKA Ecruz) used a Shimano Deore XT SM-RT86 MTB Bike Ice Tech 6 bolt disc Brake Rotor 203mm for the rear with a Cromotor and thinks it is ok but his bike is not done yet. I also want to use this Shimano Deore XT SM-RT86 MTB Bike Ice Tech 6 bolt disc Brake Rotor 203mm for the rear with a Cromotor but want to make sure it will work. Please confirm why you don't think it will.

Thanks,
Holbrook

Swingarm was 165 mm.

The icetech or two piece rotor is not completely flat. However it is groved and is made to sit flush with a normal bike, but not the cromotor as where it attaches to the cromotor is very big and round.

The rotor will work but it will stick out a few mm. This will throw off your dishing big time. I didn't realize it was the rotor at first as it will bolt on to the cromotor.

There is probably no reason to use an ice tech rotor in the rear, the 203 is already overkill. You would never heat up the rear rotor enough for it to make a difference. I would just go with a sm-rt66 203 for the rear. I wouldn't recommend grinding anything down, just not worth it in my opinion.

 

[Offroader]

It sucks that I won't be able to use my bike until June, but one upgrade I will do when I get back and recommend is use nord lock washers and put them on the two clamping dropout bolts, the axle bolts and possibly the 4 bolts that hold down the rear shock mount (you may need two nord lock washers for each bolt, one for nut and one for bolt).

You pretty much have to make sure all the bolts are tight before each ride, but the ones that continually come loose are the axle bolts and the clamping dropout bolts. They are not very loose, but definitely loosened a small amount.

I am not sure how much it matters if it loosens a little, but that little play may eventually cause the axle to fatigue and snap like it has on other forum members.

The reason I will use nord lock washers on the shock mount is that you need to remove the batteries to be able to tighten the bolts. I also think that there is enough vibration there that they will eventually loosen, although I have done a lot of rides and they seem to have remained tight, but its hard to check as I have not removed the batteries yet.

 

[snellemin]

I open my bike every time I ride. The bolts on the shock mount never came loose. And I mess around with the shock position a lot.

I use nordlock washers on the axle only. I did spread out the 165mm swing arm a bit to clear the thick rear brake adapter. Heck I even filed the brake adapter a bit. I am not a fan of that brake adapter location at all. I would have preferred a setup like Stealth instead.

 

[marcn]

Wow, that was some read from start to finish. Some of your bikes look pretty awesome, and some of your feedback, hints/tips have been very valuable.

I'm looking a undertaking my first ebike build. Been riding a variety of ebikes the past few years, and having just recently sold my Neo Jumper, it's time I splash out some money on this.

I have a few questions if someone doesn't mind answering them.

Most of the configurations throughout this thread use the Cromotor and are pumping over 72v. I'm only looking at achieving a max speed of around 50-55km/hr. I don't want to be doing over 60km/hr, as I have no need for it, especially where I ride. What's important for me (apart from being able to go both off-road and on-road, knowing the suspension component will hold up to a bashing, while still keeping fit and enjoying a well constructed and attractive frame) is torque (pedaling up hills 15-20% grade) and battery range. I also want to use some kind of PAS system and still have 5-7 gears to be able to change. I'm also avoiding using Lipo for person reasons.

Below are some of the components I'm looking at.

My weight: 100kg/220lbs
Controller: 18 FET Low RDS MOSFET Overclocker Ready LYEN Controller
Motor: ?
Battery: 75V 20AH A123 BATTERY PACK (13.5kg) from em3ev.com OR ZIPPY Flightmax 8400mAh 6S3P (18kg)
Brake Regen: Required
PAS: Thun X-CELL RT Torque Sensor (not sure what size spindle I need) or Cadence sensor?
Gears: ?
Forks: Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO V2 Forks - 20mm
Rear shock: Fox Suspension DHX RC4 Shock, length 215mm, size 64mm @ 400lbs
Wheels: 19"x1.4 prowheel, 13 gauge sapim spokes (rear), 26"
Tyres: Shinko 241 19x2.75 (Rear) - Do I need this if I won't be using Cromotor?,
Brakes: Shimano Saint M820 w/ SM-RT66 203mm rotors
Display: Cycle Analyst V3
Throttle: Required

I'm stuck as to what motor to get, as I would definitely want to be able to change gears and still feel like I'm on a normal bike (albeit heavy) while pedaling, with some sort of assistance level I can switch between. If I use a Schlumpf at the front, I won't be able to use the torque sensor.

As you can see I'm quite stuck and would appreciate some advice.

 

[Hyena]

Hi Marcn,
I'd look at a crystalyte H4065, you can run a 7 speed freewheel on this and it's reasonably light weight while delivering good torque. Otherwise if you want something heavier duty a TC65 would be my next pick but I'm not sure if you'll fit a 7 sp freewheel in the raptors dropouts.
Unless you're really going to bash around the bike you don't HAVE to run motorcycle rims and tyres and if you've come from a neo jumper you're used to pedalling and light weight and this thing will feel like a tank (and it is). Normal 24 or even 26" downhill type rims/tubes/tyres will probably suffice but again it depends on how you ride. I wouldn't get too hung up on a torque sensing bottom bracket and I imagine on if you're primarily doing offroad and technical type trails they could actually be a handful.

Also as an aside your weight for the zippy lipo pack is off by about double. I assume what you're trying to say is 3x 8400mah 6S packs in parallel (24ah) x3 in series? (18S3P of 8400mah cells)

 

[marcn]

Hi Hyena,

I was also looking at the H4080, but I can't find any information on being able to fit a 5spd or 7spd, nor can I find where to buy it from. I''ve looked at the Crown series, but they all seem to be single speed freewheel.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing re rear wheel. If I'm not running the Cromotor I don't need such a heavy duty rear wheel build and tyre. I assumed either way it'll feel completely different to the Neo Jumper, but that's expected. I'm very much over the 30km/hr limit of the Jumper and it's crap battery range.

Yes, sorry the pack is a 4S2P https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14074__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8400mAh_4S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack.html. I was looking at 24s6p

Regarding the torque sensor, having different levels of assist helped on some technical stuff when using the Jumper. Would you suggest no torque sensor and go cadence sensor? Are most the setups in this thread just run on throttle only as I can't see any mention of PAS systems?

 

[Hyena]

What's your location ? Update your profile and we'll be able to point you to the nearest supplier in your country.

The 4080 will be a bit touchy on 72v and with a top speed over 70km it'll be less efficient down low. The 4065 is what you want. And yeah, they'll fit the 7 speed but likely not the crown.
Each to their own re: the torque sensors but I find the best for offroading is a good old fashioned twist throttle - you want more at that instant, you got it. With PAS or torque sensors the physical gear you're in comes into play too and if you've suddenly washed off a heap of speed coming into a corner and then want to power out of it you're often not in the ideal position to do it. This is the reason I like hub motors over derailluer driven chain drives too. But then I ride alot of high speed twisty stuff - like this:
BTW this is a H4060 on 22S (don't run 24S on a 100v controller, it exceeds the max rating of the components)

[youtube]nOf9dgVQa2Q[/youtube]

 

[marcn]

Thanks for alerting me to that! Updated!

Noticed you're in Sydney too!

If I use a PAS sensor, in combination with throttle that should combat the issue if I get stuck.

More torque by sacrificing speed I'm willing to do.

 

[Rix]

Hi Marcn,
I'd look at a crystalyte H4065, you can run a 7 speed freewheel on this and it's reasonably light weight while delivering good torque. Otherwise if you want something heavier duty a TC65 would be my next pick but I'm not sure if you'll fit a 7 sp freewheel in the raptors dropouts.
Unless you're really going to bash around the bike you don't HAVE to run motorcycle rims and tyres and if you've come from a neo jumper you're used to pedalling and light weight and this thing will feel like a tank (and it is). Normal 24 or even 26" downhill type rims/tubes/tyres will probably suffice but again it depends on how you ride. I wouldn't get too hung up on a torque sensing bottom bracket and I imagine on if you're primarily doing offroad and technical type trails they could actually be a handful.

Also as an aside your weight for the zippy lipo pack is off by about double. I assume what you're trying to say is 3x 8400mah 6S packs in parallel (24ah) x3 in series? (18S3P of 8400mah cells)

Hello Marcn, what Hyena said is the truth here. You are about 23 pounds lighter than me. I originally started running MC tires out of neccessity, I was tired of flatting alot on the lava rock infested stuff I rode. I flatted at least 2 times a week for the first 4 months I had my Bomber before going to the MC rim and tire on the rear. I still do, and always will advocate to folks to run a MC rim, but as Hyena said, you don't have to and its over kill if you are not bashing around and riding the stuff I do. But the thing you may want to consider for performance purposes is running a 24TMB tire on the rear. The mechanical advantage over a 26MTB is quite noticable. Last fall my dad relaced his Hyena 2KW Neutron geared hub with a 24" nimbus Dominator rim. He said comparing the difference in performance from the 26MTB was like going from a 14t to a 13t on the countershaft sprocket of his dirt bike. Just something to consider. Also a 24MTB is almost identical insize to the 19x1.4 MC rim running a SR241 2.75x19, so to get an idea what a 24 on the rear and a 26 on the front would look like, Off Roaders build is the perferct example.

Rick

 

[marcn]

Thanks Rix,

Seems like my tyre and wheel setup is now sorted - thanks.

Now trying to decide on a motor. Are any of you running hydraulic brakes with brake regen or assistance cut off? If so, how?

 

[Rix]

Yah I am running the stock gators with an oversized rotor on the front. It works great for bringing things down from speed. There are better options out there, but what makes them better is only takes less lever effort to lock the brakes up or modulate them. The one thing I haven't experienced with the gators is heat build up and brake fade. Probably the big advantage of running a brake that is has heavy calipers and a huge heavy rotor. I have regen, but don't use it. It can be utilized as a pseudo ABS. If you are going to use regen as a way of prolonging your brake pad life, its good for that. But my experience has shown that using it as much as possible with intentions on extending potential distance by recharging the battery has proven to be almost, but not quite useless. There isn't nearly as much battery recharging as one would think. Talking a couple of percent. I guess it could add up though.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Thanks for alerting me to that! Updated!
Noticed you're in Sydney too!

And what a stroke of luck that one AU's biggest ebike hot rodders and casual performance ebike vendor is just up the road from you :lol:
Shoot me a PM before you throw down any cash, chances are I can hook you up with most/all of what you're after. And there's alot to be said for a plug and play kit for your first attempt at a DIY build. If you do alot of reading here you'll pick everything up and it's not overly hard but there's also alot of tales of frustration of people blowing up controllers with wrong hall/phase wire combos, burnt off skin from attempting to build their own batteries etc.

As Rix said, don't get too hung up on regen for an offroader. It's more useful on a road based bike for washing off speed coming up to intersections etc and saving brake pads but there's minimal returns in actual battery capacity. I never used it on my offroader as you're usually waist deep in the tree you were trying to avoid by the time it starts to kick in :lol:

 

[Rix]

Thanks for alerting me to that! Updated!
Noticed you're in Sydney too!

And what a stroke of luck that one AU's biggest ebike hot rodders and casual performance ebike vendor is just up the road from you :lol:
Shoot me a PM before you throw down any cash, chances are I can hook you up with most/all of what you're after. And there's alot to be said for a plug and play kit for your first attempt at a DIY build. If you do alot of reading here you'll pick everything up and it's not overly hard but there's also alot of tales of frustration of people blowing up controllers with wrong hall/phase wire combos, burnt off skin from attempting to build their own batteries etc.

As Rix said, don't get too hung up on regen for an offroader. It's more useful on a road based bike for washing off speed coming up to intersections etc and saving brake pads but there's minimal returns in actual battery capacity. I never used it on my offroader as you're usually waist deep in the tree you were trying to avoid by the time it starts to kick in :lol:

Marcn, you are one lucky dude. Hyena being this close to you can hook you up like a tow truck. I have one of his kits on my dads ebike, I can personally vouch that what ever you end up with, will be good to go.

Rick

 

[Offroader]

Below are some of the components I'm looking at.

My weight: 100kg/220lbs
Controller: 18 FET Low RDS MOSFET Overclocker Ready LYEN Controller
Motor: ?
Battery: 75V 20AH A123 BATTERY PACK (13.5kg) from em3ev.com OR ZIPPY Flightmax 8400mAh 6S3P (18kg)
Brake Regen: Required
PAS: Thun X-CELL RT Torque Sensor (not sure what size spindle I need) or Cadence sensor?
Gears: ?
Forks: Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO V2 Forks - 20mm
Rear shock: Fox Suspension DHX RC4 Shock, length 215mm, size 64mm @ 400lbs
Wheels: 19"x1.4 prowheel, 13 gauge sapim spokes (rear), 26"
Tyres: Shinko 241 19x2.75 (Rear) - Do I need this if I won't be using Cromotor?,
Brakes: Shimano Saint M820 w/ SM-RT66 203mm rotors
Display: Cycle Analyst V3
Throttle: Required

I'm stuck as to what motor to get, as I would definitely want to be able to change gears and still feel like I'm on a normal bike (albeit heavy) while pedaling, with some sort of assistance level I can switch between. If I use a Schlumpf at the front, I won't be able to use the torque sensor.

As you can see I'm quite stuck and would appreciate some advice.

Just my pointers, buy the 11/12 gauge spokes for the shinko 241. I went with the 13 gauge sapim and destroyed like 9 or 13 spokes during one ride. What happens is unless you can guarantee that not a single 13 gauge spoke will come loose, you can be certain that as soon as the spokes loosen up and you slam this heavy bike into anything you will break those 13 gauge. I also broke a bunch more 13 gauge spokes over tensioning them, popped like another 10 of them. Just go with the 11/12 gauge and don't look back, I already experimented with the 13 gauge and they won't hold up, mainly because the rear spokes are so short they are hard to tension properly without loosening. If you perhaps use lock tite to build the wheel, and can assure that no spokes will loosen, only than would I try the 13's.

I can't recommend the shinko 241 enough. I would never consider using a bicycle tire for an ebike. You're going to pinch flat all the time and wear that tire out in no time. The shinko 241 is like the perfect tire for an ebike rear. IT is made light weight, isn't overly big, just perfect.

If you plan to use the Marcozzhi 888 evo v2 fork, which I think is the best value and will require the least maintenance. Make sure you ask Torque Bikes, to make the head tube like .25" shorter to properly fit the Marzocchi 888.

My take on the motor is your best option is the cromotor v3. I don't think you're going to pedal with any type of motor on this bike. If you are going to pedal than it will be while you are giving it some throttle. The bike is too heavy to pedal. The cromotor v3 will give you great all around performance and its quiet and very smooth. You may consider those crystallite motors that have a lot of torque but I am not sure if it will be worth it.

Why are you getting the smaller DHX RC4 shock in 8.5" and not the 10.5" version?

 

[marcn]

Thanks for the help offroader it's been a big help.

Messaged Hyena and waiting for a response

Ended up going with the 10.5. Did a wrong copy and paste.

Regarding pedaling the bike, I was never planning to do it on my own, but wanted to incorporate levels of assistance with it in addition to having throttle available as well.