TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[HughF]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

Casainho wrote the defaults.... And Imho they aren't the best defaults for delivering a good user experience out of the box.

Calibrate your torque sensor, then look again at your overrun issue.

Ghost peddling will result in the motor working on this firmware version. For me, it only does it on assist 18-20... But it is a fun bug/feature.

If you switch to power mode from the default torque mode, ghost peddling will not result in the motor working. But you will loose performance off the line at low cadence. This is due to limitations in the cadence sensor resolution at low rpm.

 

[danj]

Hi,

I just installed 1.0.0 on my 750W 48V TSDZ2 and the corresponding firmware on an 860C. Everything went smoothly, great instructions, a great thank you to Casainho and to all the contributors!
I have calibrated the torque sensors, reviewed the settings as per what I have read here and went out today for a 70km test. After the normal struggle with finding the best settings for my (touring) style, everything worked well and I have the following remarks:

1. I have every now and then a display error in the speed field on the first screen (see below). There is an additional 1 (sometimes a 2) in front of the speed appearing suddenly. If I switch the screen to one of the other 2, it dissapears but it comes back eventually. There is no effect on how the motor works, just the visual. Is this a known issue or is it something related to my 860C? The only thing I may connect it to is that it seems to appear after a vigurous acceleration, at any assistance level, but it might be just an impression, as I couldn't reproduce it intentionally.

2. This can be totally subjective, as I cannot compare correctly, but the battery seemed to drain faster than during my previous identical ride with the stock firmware. Is there anything in particular about settings that I should look into? I tried to stay at the same speeds with the same cadence but as I said, this is totally subjective and until I try a ride that completely discharges my battery I fear the comparison is not relevant.

Thank you for all advise, it is highly appreciated

 

[Mr.Flibble]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

Casainho wrote the defaults.... And Imho they aren't the best defaults for delivering a good user experience out of the box.

Calibrate your torque sensor, then look again at your overrun issue.

Ghost peddling will result in the motor working on this firmware version. For me, it only does it on assist 18-20... But it is a fun bug/feature.

If you switch to power mode from the default torque mode, ghost peddling will go away.

I am very much enjoying the high cadence with assist (thanks very much Mr Casainho), and the smother power delivery. It makes peddling off road a far more natural experience, now I can over peddle up steep inclines.

Calibrating the torque sensor was my next port of call, but I don't understand how is would affect the over run, unless there is a bug.

Any suggestions for "better" settings than the default?

 

[Mr.Flibble]

Hi,

I just installed 1.0.0 on my 750W 48V TSDZ2 and the corresponding firmware on an 860C. Everything went smoothly, great instructions, a great thank you to Casainho and to all the contributors!
I have calibrated the torque sensors, reviewed the settings as per what I have read here and went out today for a 70km test. After the normal struggle with finding the best settings for my (touring) style, everything worked well and I have the following remarks:

1. I have every now and then a display error in the speed field on the first screen (see below). There is an additional 1 (sometimes a 2) in front of the speed appearing suddenly. If I switch the screen to one of the other 2, it dissapears but it comes back eventually. There is no effect on how the motor works, just the visual. Is this a known issue or is it something related to my 860C? The only thing I may connect it to is that it seems to appear after a vigurous acceleration, at any assistance level, but it might be just an impression, as I couldn't reproduce it intentionally.

2. This can be totally subjective, as I cannot compare correctly, but the battery seemed to drain faster than during my previous identical ride with the stock firmware. Is there anything in particular about settings that I should look into? I tried to stay at the same speeds with the same cadence but as I said, this is totally subjective and until I try a ride that completely discharges my battery I fear the comparison is not relevant.

Thank you for all advise, it is highly appreciated

Check your magnet and speed sensor positioning/gap.
If it's too far out, it will give random readings, often way over - if it's too close.

 

[Alphonse]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

Casainho wrote the defaults.... And Imho they aren't the best defaults for delivering a good user experience out of the box.

Calibrate your torque sensor, then look again at your overrun issue.

Ghost peddling will result in the motor working on this firmware version. For me, it only does it on assist 18-20... But it is a fun bug/feature.

If you switch to power mode from the default torque mode, ghost peddling will go away.

I am very much enjoying the high cadence with assist (thanks very much Mr Casainho), and the smother power delivery. It makes peddling off road a far more natural experience, now I can over peddle up steep inclines.

Calibrating the torque sensor was my next port of call, but I don't understand how is would affect the over run, unless there is a bug.

Any suggestions for "better" settings than the default?

Ref. Torque Sensor Calibration - There's a clear statement as to why you need to do it in the WIKI. Calibration will have no effect on overrun but it will make your system perform better.

Ref. Settings - Change default of 20 levels to 10 and keep the same Assist Level Factors. Using levels 1 to 10 in the table posted here in the last few days allows you to stay out of the red zone. A small amount of low torque overrun is irrelevant. Spend more time watching "human power" and "motor power" on your display and how they are performing vs. trying to watch motor current. BTW, the human power calculation is more accurate if your torque sensor is calibrated.

 

[HughF]

I don't have any settings that will help with overrun, it was never an area of concern for me. I was always more concerned with off the line performance so I concentrated on finding settings to give me maximum performance.

What I found to work is documented a good few pages back in some of my posts.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

Casainho wrote the defaults.... And Imho they aren't the best defaults for delivering a good user experience out of the box.

Calibrate your torque sensor, then look again at your overrun issue.

Ghost peddling will result in the motor working on this firmware version. For me, it only does it on assist 18-20... But it is a fun bug/feature.

If you switch to power mode from the default torque mode, ghost peddling will go away.

I am very much enjoying the high cadence with assist (thanks very much Mr Casainho), and the smother power delivery. It makes peddling off road a far more natural experience, now I can over peddle up steep inclines.

Calibrating the torque sensor was my next port of call, but I don't understand how is would affect the over run, unless there is a bug.

Any suggestions for "better" settings than the default?

Ref. Torque Sensor Calibration - There's a clear statement as to why you need to do it in the WIKI. Calibration will have no effect on overrun but it will make your system perform better.

Ref. Settings - Change default of 20 levels to 10 and keep the same Assist Level Factors. Using levels 1 to 10 in the table posted here in the last few days allows you to stay out of the red zone. A small amount of low torque overrun is irrelevant. Spend more time watching "human power" and "motor power" on your display and how they are performing vs. trying to watch motor current. BTW, the human power calculation is more accurate if your torque sensor is calibrated.

I'm getting over run from levels 6 upwards,but it does get worse at higher power. Sometimes long and powerful enough to severely interfere with breaking, as well as trying to destroy my chain/cassette.

I watch where I am going mostly, rather than the display.
It also doesn't always happen ......... ?

 

[Alphonse]

I don't have any settings that will help with overrun, it was never an area of concern for me. I was always more concerned with off the line performance so I concentrated on finding settings to give me maximum performance.

What I found to work is documented a good few pages back in some of my posts.

Thanks Hugh, this thread is so long and complicated I have a great deal of trouble finding stuff in it.

Unfortunately the board software lacks post numbers/identifiers so that is a hindrance for us to make references to past posts. Could you tell me what date you posted your settings so I can find them? I really am interested in taking a look.

Thanks for the help and your input here.

 

[HughF]

I don't have any settings that will help with overrun, it was never an area of concern for me. I was always more concerned with off the line performance so I concentrated on finding settings to give me maximum performance.

What I found to work is documented a good few pages back in some of my posts.

Thanks Hugh, this thread is so long and complicated I have a great deal of trouble finding stuff in it.

Unfortunately the board software lacks post numbers/identifiers so that is a hindrance for us to make references to past posts. Could you tell me what date you posted your settings so I can find them? I really am interested in taking a look.

Thanks for the help and your input here.

Try this:

For the best hill start performance I would setup as the following:

Motor current control = torque
Assist w/o pedal = enable
Startup BOOST = disable
Startup BOOST duration = 5
Startup BOOST fade = 6.5
Motor current ramp = 10a (maximum)
Calibrate your torque sensor then enable calibrations
Motor current max = 20a

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Thanks to everyone that has been helping and are now helping with this excellent firmware.
I've been spending a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out the best way to use version 1 on handcycles. At this point version, 1 is better than version 20 in all but the 3 ways below.

(1) Starting from a dead stop needs to be improved, it doesn't have enough assistance and shakes and vibrates for the first half rotation.
(2) With a coaster brake when pedaling and you want to reverse the crank rotation to brake, there is a great amount of resistance until you move the pedals forward again about a half-inch and then back again to brake. This problem was there in version 19 and Buba fixed it in version 20. If someone would please look into the difference between version 20 and version 19 to see what was done to fix this reverse resistance? And then make those changes to version 1! In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.
(3) It does have a small amount of overrun, but with the coaster brake motor you just hold back on the cranks and it stops. It would be nice to have this fixed. In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.

Version 20 is very easy to navigate and EMTB is an awesome setting. Version 1 is very refined but complicated. But after a lot of work and with help we have figured out where the settings need to be for handcycles so that it works well, and without torque sensor calibration being necessary.

I've attached a file showing my settings and photos showing my settings. Please comment and help solve these problems above at any time. Without this software and all the hard work that has gone and is going into it, it is much more difficult to take advantage of the TSZ2 on handcycles. Do not use any of these settings past level 5 or the motor will over heat without proper cooling.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will include detailed photos and a description of how I liquid-cooled the TSDZ2 so it can handle double the power without overheating. A hint is, a small pump moves fluid threw the motor to a small radiator and back to cool it down. Not just any coolant or oil works well, after many trials it’s working well.

View attachment Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0.rtf

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Thanks to everyone that has been helping and are now helping with this excellent firmware.
I've been spending a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out the best way to use version 1 on handcycles. At this point version, 1 is better than version 20 in all but the 3 ways below.

(1) Starting from a dead stop needs to be improved, it doesn't have enough assistance and shakes and vibrates for the first half rotation.
(2) With a coaster brake when pedaling and you want to reverse the crank rotation to brake, there is a great amount of resistance until you move the pedals forward again about a half-inch and then back again to brake. This problem was there in version 19 and Buba fixed it in version 20. If someone would please look into the difference between version 20 and version 19 to see what was done to fix this reverse resistance? And then make those changes to version 1! In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.
(3) It does have a small amount of overrun, but with the coaster brake motor you just hold back on the cranks and it stops. It would be nice to have this fixed. In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.

Version 20 is very easy to navigate and EMTB is an awesome setting. Version 1 is very refined but complicated. But after a lot of work and with help we have figured out where the settings need to be for handcycles so that it works well, and without torque sensor calibration being necessary.

I've attached a file showing my settings and photos showing my settings. Please comment and help solve these problems above at any time. Without this software and all the hard work that has gone and is going into it, it is much more difficult to take advantage of the TSZ2 on handcycles. Do not use any of these settings past level 5 or the motor will over heat without proper cooling.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will include detailed photos and a description of how I liquid-cooled the TSDZ2 so it can handle double the power without overheating. A hint is, a small pump moves fluid threw the motor to a small radiator and back to cool it down. Not just any coolant or oil works well, after many trials it’s working well.

Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0.rtf
Motor.jpgTorque Sensor.jpgAssist Level.jpgStartup Boost.jpg

I drove over to electrifybike.com this afternoon and we programed 2 handcycles with these newest settings for the National Ability Center, that have throttles on them. Electrify loves the new setting so much, they are much more usable for a HANDCYCLE. We discussed what we could do to be able to use these awesome settings and still not meltdown the TSDZ2 when pedaling and when using the throttle. What we came up with was that you don't use the throttle for more than a few feet at a time to get threw a tough spot, then you can use level 1-5. But if you're using it to get up a Hill then it has to be in level 1 if hot outside or level 2 if its cool outside, otherwise, it'll fry the motor. When you're on a handcycle the Motors right in front of your face so signs that it's too hot are very easy to recognize. If it starts to get louder it's too hot, if you touch it and can feel that it's hot it's too hot. We Suggest you use the settings with some common sense and your motor should last a long time. My fist motor has over 5000 miles on it. The newer motor has over 2500 miles. If you turn it up with the throttle or turn it up to much when it's hot outside even if you're pedaling it can overheat and you could fry it.
So just use common sense, work a little harder and your motor should last a long time!
Later,
Jeff

 

[fireflyer451]

Jeff,

Great write up of configuration settings, thanks for doing it.

Can't wait to see the details of your liquid cooling!

 

[vass]

Thanks to everyone that has been helping and are now helping with this excellent firmware.
I've been spending a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out the best way to use version 1 on handcycles. At this point version, 1 is better than version 20 in all but the 3 ways below.

(1) Starting from a dead stop needs to be improved, it doesn't have enough assistance and shakes and vibrates for the first half rotation.
(2) With a coaster brake when pedaling and you want to reverse the crank rotation to brake, there is a great amount of resistance until you move the pedals forward again about a half-inch and then back again to brake. This problem was there in version 19 and Buba fixed it in version 20. If someone would please look into the difference between version 20 and version 19 to see what was done to fix this reverse resistance? And then make those changes to version 1! In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.
(3) It does have a small amount of overrun, but with the coaster brake motor you just hold back on the cranks and it stops. It would be nice to have this fixed. In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.

Version 20 is very easy to navigate and EMTB is an awesome setting. Version 1 is very refined but complicated. But after a lot of work and with help we have figured out where the settings need to be for handcycles so that it works well, and without torque sensor calibration being necessary.

I've attached a file showing my settings and photos showing my settings. Please comment and help solve these problems above at any time. Without this software and all the hard work that has gone and is going into it, it is much more difficult to take advantage of the TSZ2 on handcycles. Do not use any of these settings past level 5 or the motor will over heat without proper cooling.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will include detailed photos and a description of how I liquid-cooled the TSDZ2 so it can handle double the power without overheating. A hint is, a small pump moves fluid threw the motor to a small radiator and back to cool it down. Not just any coolant or oil works well, after many trials it’s working well.

Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0.rtf
Motor.jpgTorque Sensor.jpgAssist Level.jpgStartup Boost.jpg

I drove over to electrifybike.com this afternoon and we programed 2 handcycles with these newest settings for the National Ability Center, that have throttles on them. Electrify loves the new setting so much, they are much more usable for a HANDCYCLE. We discussed what we could do to be able to use these awesome settings and still not meltdown the TSDZ2 when pedaling and when using the throttle. What we came up with was that you don't use the throttle for more than a few feet at a time to get threw a tough spot, then you can use level 1-5. But if you're using it to get up a Hill then it has to be in level 1 if hot outside or level 2 if its cool outside, otherwise, it'll fry the motor. When you're on a handcycle the Motors right in front of your face so signs that it's too hot are very easy to recognize. If it starts to get louder it's too hot, if you touch it and can feel that it's hot it's too hot. We Suggest you use the settings with some common sense and your motor should last a long time. My fist motor has over 5000 miles on it. The newer motor has over 2500 miles. If you turn it up with the throttle or turn it up to much when it's hot outside even if you're pedaling it can overheat and you could fry it.
So just use common sense, work a little harder and your motor should last a long time!
Later,
Jeff

Jeff do you have the thermal mods and sensor on your motors? i have done both and have to say that even when going up some hard hills on hot(ish) weather (well 28 celsius...) i am have a hard time to overhear it (i have set the lower treshold at 65 celsius).
I do help the motor alot with pedaling. the best way i have to overheat is putting it on the mode that tries to give you constant speed and almost dont pedal and ride uphill (but then the sensor kicks in and just lowers the power).

An external oil cooler (like some motorcycles have) its da good idea, but probably only duable on handcycles, have you done this on a bike?

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Thanks to everyone that has been helping and are now helping with this excellent firmware.
I've been spending a tremendous amount of time trying to figure out the best way to use version 1 on handcycles. At this point version, 1 is better than version 20 in all but the 3 ways below.

(1) Starting from a dead stop needs to be improved, it doesn't have enough assistance and shakes and vibrates for the first half rotation.
(2) With a coaster brake when pedaling and you want to reverse the crank rotation to brake, there is a great amount of resistance until you move the pedals forward again about a half-inch and then back again to brake. This problem was there in version 19 and Buba fixed it in version 20. If someone would please look into the difference between version 20 and version 19 to see what was done to fix this reverse resistance? And then make those changes to version 1! In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.
(3) It does have a small amount of overrun, but with the coaster brake motor you just hold back on the cranks and it stops. It would be nice to have this fixed. In settings, if the coaster brake motor is chosen or not and if the fast stop setting is chosen or not does not have any effect on this.

Version 20 is very easy to navigate and EMTB is an awesome setting. Version 1 is very refined but complicated. But after a lot of work and with help we have figured out where the settings need to be for handcycles so that it works well, and without torque sensor calibration being necessary.

I've attached a file showing my settings and photos showing my settings. Please comment and help solve these problems above at any time. Without this software and all the hard work that has gone and is going into it, it is much more difficult to take advantage of the TSZ2 on handcycles. Do not use any of these settings past level 5 or the motor will over heat without proper cooling.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will include detailed photos and a description of how I liquid-cooled the TSDZ2 so it can handle double the power without overheating. A hint is, a small pump moves fluid threw the motor to a small radiator and back to cool it down. Not just any coolant or oil works well, after many trials it’s working well.

Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0.rtf
Motor.jpgTorque Sensor.jpgAssist Level.jpgStartup Boost.jpg

I drove over to electrifybike.com this afternoon and we programed 2 handcycles with these newest settings for the National Ability Center, that have throttles on them. Electrify loves the new setting so much, they are much more usable for a HANDCYCLE. We discussed what we could do to be able to use these awesome settings and still not meltdown the TSDZ2 when pedaling and when using the throttle. What we came up with was that you don't use the throttle for more than a few feet at a time to get threw a tough spot, then you can use level 1-5. But if you're using it to get up a Hill then it has to be in level 1 if hot outside or level 2 if its cool outside, otherwise, it'll fry the motor. When you're on a handcycle the Motors right in front of your face so signs that it's too hot are very easy to recognize. If it starts to get louder it's too hot, if you touch it and can feel that it's hot it's too hot. We Suggest you use the settings with some common sense and your motor should last a long time. My fist motor has over 5000 miles on it. The newer motor has over 2500 miles. If you turn it up with the throttle or turn it up to much when it's hot outside even if you're pedaling it can overheat and you could fry it.
So just use common sense, work a little harder and your motor should last a long time!
Later,
Jeff

Jeff do you have the thermal mods and sensor on your motors? i have done both and have to say that even when going up some hard hills on hot(ish) weather (well 28 celsius...) i am have a hard time to overhear it (i have set the lower treshold at 65 celsius).
I do help the motor alot with pedaling. the best way i have to overheat is putting it on the mode that tries to give you constant speed and almost dont pedal and ride uphill (but then the sensor kicks in and just lowers the power).

An external oil cooler (like some motorcycles have) its da good idea, but probably only duable on handcycles, have you done this on a bike?

I did all the thermal mods before I started this liquid-cooled project, and they do help. I have two thermal sensors installed and will give details latter. So far only my handcycle has been doing all the testing.

 

[bejam]

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will include detailed photos and a description of how I liquid-cooled the TSDZ2 so it can handle double the power without overheating. A hint is, a small pump moves fluid threw the motor to a small radiator and back to cool it down. Not just any coolant or oil works well, after many trials it’s working well.

Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0.rtf
Motor.jpgTorque Sensor.jpgAssist Level.jpgStartup Boost.jpg

Also looking forward to the liquid cooling mod - and wondering whether my small Dahon folding bike will have enough space for it. I have been a bit chicken in doing the thermal mods as it looks like a fair amount of dismantling to add the thermal paste etc. The pads part looks easier but I have just been getting used to the new motor and bike.

I am a bit worried having read the last few pages that I have been over heating my motor. I have limited the current to 16A (52V 14Ah battery) but now see from these visual charts and the human power x assist equation that I may have been caning the motor with the assist up at 18,19, & 20. Especially in the hot weather. This is a bug right? I thought I saw some mention pages back on it being fixed but I guess a new release is not out yet. I guess Casainho busy working on the exciting bluetooth/wireless setup For now I will keep to an assist level of 10 - but that does quite limit the overall ebike effect.

 

[hefest]

For now I will keep to an assist level of 10 - but that does quite limit the overall ebike effect.

Not sure what kind of hills are you guys riding but in higher assist levels on 8% incline it almost rides itself in assist level 0.7 (level 7 or similar ) like a motorcycle giving out 700-800W.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

For now I will keep to an assist level of 10 - but that does quite limit the overall ebike effect.

Not sure what kind of hills are you guys riding but in higher assist levels on 8% incline it almost rides itself in assist level 0.7 (level 7 or similar ) like a motorcycle giving out 700-800W.

View attachment Jeff's Features and configurations on display 850C-860C V1.0.0 (1).rtfIf you go back and look at the attachments, you can see what levels I'm using.

ASSIST 5 LEVELS
1 .050
2 .100
3 .150
4 .200
5 .250

STARTUP BOOST 5 LEVELS
1 .100
2 .200
3 .300
4 .400
5 .500

 

[bejam]

For now I will keep to an assist level of 10 - but that does quite limit the overall ebike effect.

Not sure what kind of hills are you guys riding but in higher assist levels on 8% incline it almost rides itself in assist level 0.7 (level 7 or similar ) like a motorcycle giving out 700-800W.

Mine is set at default with 20 levels. So level 10 is 0.087. I was often level 18 but have now reduced. Having seen the human power - motor power table back a page AND knowing I have no thermal mods I didn't adjust the assist settings to the same as Jeff. But even he has max 0.25 for normal use. 0.7 I agree would be a lot better. But can the motor cope? Maybe better to ask, can it cope now versus can it cope if this is a bug and a revised firmware keeps the power within the set limit (for me 16 A)?

 

[ilu]

Assist levels and their factors are not directly comparable between different bikes, especially if you haven't calibrated the torque sensor. Without calibration they depend on individual torque sensor readings which we know to differ wildly between motors. After calibration the gear ratio and wheel size also affect how the motor output is related to actually riding the bike. I have noticed that after calibration, for me there's no point to go higher than ~0.600 assist factor as beyond that I'm kind of only losing sensitivity of the torque control but not getting any more power out of the motor.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

I think I have fixed the over run - the Cadance fast stop was disabled.
I still have the "Ghost pedaling" issue, even in power mode.
Any ideas how to stop this, as when I back off to change gear, the motor is still running and trying to destroy my cassette.

 

[casainho]

Assist levels and their factors are not directly comparable between different bikes, especially if you haven't calibrated the torque sensor. Without calibration they depend on individual torque sensor readings which we know to differ wildly between motors. After calibration the gear ratio and wheel size also affect how the motor output is related to actually riding the bike. I have noticed that after calibration, for me there's no point to go higher than ~0.600 assist factor as beyond that I'm kind of only losing sensitivity of the torque control but not getting any more power out of the motor.

That is totally correct!!

The correct way to compare between users is first calibrate the torque sensor and then see how much human power the rider provides on the pedals!! I can provide between 100 to 300 watts of human power and at assist level of 8 (0.049 factor), the motor will use 15 amps -- 300 * 0.049 = 14.7 amps. At startups I can provide like 600 watts or more of human power.

As a matter of comparison, I am being start running and on last 12 kms, my average human power calculated by my watch is about 175 watts, this values makes sense comparing to the values shown on my 860C display:

My average human power while running:

 

[Alphonse]

My 860c display reads 1.2 vdc higher than actual battery voltage at a high level SOC. The error decreases to 1 vdc when the battery is at 30% SOC. My assumption is that this is a hardware issue. BTW, my battery is a 52v so yes, I know the displays says "Run" at 59.5V!

Can someone familiar with the workings of an 860c tell me if this is likely a hardware issue or can OSF play into it?

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Assist levels and their factors are not directly comparable between different bikes, especially if you haven't calibrated the torque sensor. Without calibration they depend on individual torque sensor readings which we know to differ wildly between motors. After calibration the gear ratio and wheel size also affect how the motor output is related to actually riding the bike. I have noticed that after calibration, for me there's no point to go higher than ~0.600 assist factor as beyond that I'm kind of only losing sensitivity of the torque control but not getting any more power out of the motor.

That is totally correct!!

The correct way to compare between users is first calibrate the torque sensor and then see how much human power the rider provides on the pedals!! I can provide between 100 to 300 watts of human power and at assist level of 8 (0.049 factor), the motor will use 15 amps -- 300 * 0.049 = 14.7 amps. At startups I can provide like 600 watts or more of human power.

As a matter of comparison, I am being start running and on last 12 kms, my average human power calculated by my watch is about 175 watts, this values makes sense comparing to the values shown on my 860C display:

My average human power while running:

I watch human watts and motor watts all the time, my average watts on a flat ride is between 30 and 100 human watts, the highest I can make or pedal is 200 Watts for a very short amount of time, the highest motor watts I see is 850. That's why on a handcycle if you're not Mr. Muscle you need such high settings to enjoy the ride. My handcycle with 3 batteries on it so that I can ride over 100 miles at one time, wieghts 100 pounds and after the China virus I gained 30 pounds so I weigh 190 now plus my backpack full of water and tools. So I'm asking the TSDZ2 to move 300 pounds at high speeds and up and down Hills. And that's the reason I started looking into liquid cooling, just too much to ask from a TSDZ2. I love the torque sensor and the OSF on these Motors and that's why I'm sticking with it and just making things work. They are also so much smaller & lighter than the Bafang's. The weight of the bafang isn't any more compared to what all my cooling system adds probably pretty close.

 

[Axl Rose]

1) The latest firmware version 1.0.0 release is here https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/releases
2) If you mean the motor will not go through your bike frame (where the bottom bracket would go) I have seen this myself on some alloy mountain bike frames that have large weld ingress into the bottom bracket space. If thats a case you can carefully use a file to file the middle section back but be careful not to damage the threads ( asuming you may want to put a standard bottom bracket back in the future)

Thanks again Perry.
1) I flashed the latest firmware succesfully.
2) Yes, this was meant. I filed the middle section carefully away until the axle of the motor went through.
After that I tried if the standard bottom bracket still fits. This is given so it won´t be a problem to revert back.

 

[bejam]

Assist levels and their factors are not directly comparable between different bikes, especially if you haven't calibrated the torque sensor. Without calibration they depend on individual torque sensor readings which we know to differ wildly between motors. After calibration the gear ratio and wheel size also affect how the motor output is related to actually riding the bike. I have noticed that after calibration, for me there's no point to go higher than ~0.600 assist factor as beyond that I'm kind of only losing sensitivity of the torque control but not getting any more power out of the motor.

Thanks, good to know. I find some of the higher assist levels do make a difference in speed and acceleration 15-16-17 with default settings) . I have 20 inch wheels, so perhaps that could be a difference? I have also calibrated the torque sensor..

Hopefully unrelated to setting assist too high over time (only done about 50 miles) I am hearing slight clicks as the bike gets going. Nothing too loud. It sounds a bit like spokes creaking or a piece of material flapping in the spokes. It stops once the motor is up to speed, and doesn't happen if cycling with the motor off. Is this normal or should I be concerned?