TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102.

[mbrusa]

I didn't think it would come to a warning from the moderator, but at this point it was necessary.

 

[amberwolf]

Would you like me to move all the offtopic posts to their own thread?

 

[Zambam]

Anyone monitor "Rider pedal power" on their display? What numbers are you seeing? On assist level 1 of my TSDZ2, with the default multiplication factor of 40, I felt it was providing too much assist so lowered it to 20 and went for a 20 mile ride. Started with a full charge 53.4 V, 4 bars. After 20 miles 50.4V, 3 bars left. Pretty energy efficient! On the flat use between zero to 20 motor watts, on climbs not more than 100.

From my manual:
- 4. Pedal data
• 4.0 Rider pedal power : in watts.
• 4.1 Pedal cadence : in revolutions per minute.
• 4.2 Pedal weight : in kilograms.

I had cadence selected since day one and just noticed the "rider pedal power" today. Will go for a ride tomorrow and see what kind of numbers I get for pedal power.

 

[mbrusa]

Would you like me to move all the offtopic posts to their own thread?

Thanks, it would be appropriate to do so if the participants were going to continue with this new topic, but I don't think they are going to do so.
Let's leave the posts, they are a warning to others.

 

[BenO]

Thank you all for your answers.

On the invoice : it is written 36V / 250W.
I tried changing a few options without success.

Battery current max to 14
Overcurrent error delay to 3
Startup boost torque factor to 200

Other changes:

Assist mode on startup: Hybrid


I attached a recording at the beginning of a session and at the end when it starts doing E07 (after a few minutes).
The motor is making more noise before doing a E07.

And it is making a high pitched sound just before the E07.
Switching off & on just after an E07 will trigger it again after 10-30 seconds.

Could something be broken?

Should I reduce the motor acceleration?

 

[Weissnix]

Hi,

I just flashed OSF v20.1C.6 on my TSDZ2b (250W / 36V).
After biking a bit, I started getting E07 errors (overcurrent).

Any idea where it could be coming from?

I just observed I didn't change the street power limit to 500W.
Should I restrict it too ? (to 250W?)

Had it too. Calibration of the sensor made a big difference. And try to shift softer. I have a TSDZ8 know and will buy for the first time a gear shift sensor. But i prefer to leave the setting, because I ruined 2 blue gears last month. Also try to calm down the acceleration of the motor (i forgot the setting, but Mbrusa writes that it could stress your drivetrain with too harsh settings).

 

[BenO]

Had it too. Calibration of the sensor made a big difference. And try to shift softer. I have a TSDZ8 know and will buy for the first time a gear shift sensor. But i prefer to leave the setting, because I ruined 2 blue gears last month. Also try to calm down the acceleration of the motor (i forgot the setting, but Mbrusa writes that it could stress your drivetrain with too harsh settings).

Thank you, I'll try to do a calibration then! I still have to understand how to do it with a VLCD6

 

[astronaut]

Maybe someone can tell me why the SOC does not reset on the auto and Wh modes?
If I discharge the battery to 50% or so, and then charge it to 100% (54.3V - 54.4V in my case), the display continues to show 50% and then drops to 49%...48% etc during the riding... The "Reset at voltage" is as recommended in the manual - 54.1V...
Should I set "Auto reset" to lower value? Now is default 15%

P.S. Is it possible to do Torque sensor calibration for/on SW102 (20.1C.5) without full dissasemling? and where I can find the manual if it is?

 

[Zambam]

Hi mbrusa,

What kind of accuracy is Rider pedal power value? 2% 5% 10%? Is it affected by changing torque assist level 1 multiplier from 40 to 20?

 

[endlessolli]

Hi mbrusa,

What kind of accuracy is Rider pedal power value? 2% 55 10%? Is it affected by changing torque assist level 1 multiplier from 40 to 20?

You should read the manual included in @mbrusa github files. It explains many things in detail.
Also your question can not really be answered, because the accuracy depends in the 1st place on the accuracy of your calibration of the sensor and on the linearity of the sensor response (each sensor behaves a little different). Both of these things are more hardware driven things, so the firmware has no real impact on the accuracy.
Bottomline: If you want accuracy, you need to do accurate hard- and software calibration of the sensor

 

[mbrusa]

Thank you all for your answers.

On the invoice : it is written 36V / 250W.
I tried changing a few options without success.

Battery current max to 14
Overcurrent error delay to 3
Startup boost torque factor to 200

Other changes:

Assist mode on startup: Hybrid


I attached a recording at the beginning of a session and at the end when it starts doing E07 (after a few minutes).
The motor is making more noise before doing a E07.

And it is making a high pitched sound just before the E07.
Switching off & on just after an E07 will trigger it again after 10-30 seconds.

Could something be broken?

Should I reduce the motor acceleration?

The noise before E07 is not normal, it is a symptom of something wrong, hard to say what.
Is the motor new? Before installing OSF did it make the same noise?

 

[mbrusa]

Maybe someone can tell me why the SOC does not reset on the auto and Wh modes?
If I discharge the battery to 50% or so, and then charge it to 100% (54.3V - 54.4V in my case), the display continues to show 50% and then drops to 49%...48% etc during the riding... The "Reset at voltage" is as recommended in the manual - 54.1V...
Should I set "Auto reset" to lower value? Now is default 15%

P.S. Is it possible to do Torque sensor calibration for/on SW102 (20.1C.5) without full dissasemling? and where I can find the manual if it is?

You have to decrease "Reset at voltage" until you get the reset with the battery charged at 100%.

For the "Auto" reset when the battery is not at 100", you have to install the latest version v20.1C.5-update-1, with the previous ones there was a problem.

The software calibration procedure of the torque sensor can be found in the 860C display manual, see the "Torque sensor" menu ("Torque cal" in SW102).
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-...0.1C.5-1-860C-Display-Configuration-Guide.pdf

 

[BenO]

The noise before E07 is not normal, it is a symptom of something wrong, hard to say what.
Is the motor new? Before installing OSF did it make the same noise?

The motor is second hand.
I don't remember that kind of noise with the previous (native ?) setup / firmware.

I'll revert it.

The motor assistance was a bit weak: this is why I wanted to try OSF.

Next step will be disassembly

 

[mbrusa]

Hi mbrusa,

What kind of accuracy is Rider pedal power value? 2% 5% 10%? Is it affected by changing torque assist level 1 multiplier from 40 to 20?

To get an accurate human power value, you need to do the full calibration, including the weight one.
But the torque sensor response is not linear, so you will get an accurate value only when the push on the pedals matches the weight used for the calibration. With a different push, the error can be very high, not quantifiable.
This is why I consider the weight calibration useless, the basic calibration is enough.

Human power is only indirectly influenced by the level multipliers, in the sense that if you decrease the level you will have to push harder.

 

[zanatole]

To get an accurate human power value, you need to do the full calibration, including the weight one.
But the torque sensor response is not linear, so you will get an accurate value only when the push on the pedals matches the weight used for the calibration. With a different push, the error can be very high, not quantifiable.
This is why I consider the weight calibration useless, the basic calibration is enough.

Human power is only indirectly influenced by the level multipliers, in the sense that if you decrease the level you will have to push harder.

Cant curve be approached with multiple points of mesure (10 or 20?).
If not why calibrate? Torque offset isn't enough?

 

[Elinx]

Cant curve be approached with multiple points of mesure (10 or 20?).
If not why calibrate? Torque offset isn't enough?

The version of Casainho for 860C has this multipoint calibration. But that version is abandoned.
The calibration for a reasonable accurate value of human power has to do with the curve of the torques sensor.
That weight gives a value on that curved line, so it is a 3 point calibration.

 

[zanatole]

The version of Casainho for 860C has this multipoint calibration. But that version is abandoned.
The calibration for a reasonable accurate value of human power has to do with the curve of the torques sensor.
That weight gives a value on that curved line, so it is a 3 point calibration.

So response is approximated by y=ax+b with 3 points . Is it worth?

 

[astronaut]

You have to decrease "Reset at voltage" until you get the reset with the battery charged at 100%.

Reset at voltage set to 54.1V, and my battery was tested by multimeter few times and it was always more than 54.1V.. after FULL charge (54.3V.... 54.4V)... but reset did not work it the most of cases... sometimes it worked after some km and few reboots... and it was like that:
50%.... 49%...47%.... reboot... 47%...45%... reboot.... 96%.

For the "Auto" reset when the battery is not at 100", you have to install the latest version v20.1C.5-update-1, with the previous ones there was a problem.

I have the v20.1C.5-update-1,
..and also, as I mention before - assist without pedaling does not work, the assist started with some small rotation only, but not with just pushing the foot on the pedal... I read the 860/102 manual 7 times, changed the settings, turned it on, off, rebooted it - nothing changed.

The software calibration procedure of the torque sensor can be found in the 860C display manual, see the "Torque sensor" menu ("Torque cal" in SW102).
https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-...0.1C.5-1-860C-Display-Configuration-Guide.pdf

Thank you! I will try!

 

[Zambam]

To get an accurate human power value, you need to do the full calibration, including the weight one.
But the torque sensor response is not linear, so you will get an accurate value only when the push on the pedals matches the weight used for the calibration. With a different push, the error can be very high, not quantifiable.
This is why I consider the weight calibration useless, the basic calibration is enough.

Human power is only indirectly influenced by the level multipliers, in the sense that if you decrease the level you will have to push harder.

Thank for your reply mbrusa! I did check and redo the torque sensor calibration, which has not changed from when I did it 9 months ago.

10.10 Pedal torque ADC offset (no weight) = 113
10.11 Pedal torque ADC max (max weight) = 210

So human power value is not useful? Why is it made available in OSF then? On Torque assist level 1, with multiplier = 20, I was seeing human power more than twice motor power.

With less assist, I am seeing much better range. With 51 miles on the odo currently, battery is @ 45.5V (down from 53.5 V full, 6 Ah battery). LVC is 39V so there's 6.5 more V to go. I should be able to make 60 miles. Maybe more?

 

[mbrusa]

Reset at voltage set to 54.1V, and my battery was tested by multimeter few times and it was always more than 54.1V.. after FULL charge (54.3V.... 54.4V)... but reset did not work it the most of cases... sometimes it worked after some km and few reboots... and it was like that:
50%.... 49%...47%.... reboot... 47%...45%... reboot.... 96%.


I have the v20.1C.5-update-1,
..and also, as I mention before - assist without pedaling does not work, the assist started with some small rotation only, but not with just pushing the foot on the pedal... I read the 860/102 manual 7 times, changed the settings, turned it on, off, rebooted it - nothing changed.


Thank you! I will try!

Maybe I wasn't clear, if it doesn't reset to 54.1V, you need to set a lower value.
Try 53.3V (4.1V per cell) it should work, otherwise decrease it further.

Also the automatic SOC reset when the battery is not at 100% should work with the v20.1C.5-update-1 version, are you sure you have set "Auto"?

Starting the assistance without pedaling can depend on many factors, including the assistance mode used and the calibration of the torque sensor.
Try to gradually increase the value of "Torque adc threshold".

 

[mbrusa]

Thank for your reply mbrusa! I did check and redo the torque sensor calibration, which has not changed from when I did it 9 months ago.

10.10 Pedal torque ADC offset (no weight) = 113
10.11 Pedal torque ADC max (max weight) = 210

So human power value is not useful? Why is it made available in OSF then? On Torque assist level 1, with multiplier = 20, I was seeing human power more than twice motor power.

With less assist, I am seeing much better range. With 51 miles on the odo currently, battery is @ 45.5V (down from 53.5 V full, 6 Ah battery). LVC is 39V so there's 6.5 more V to go. I should be able to make 60 miles. Maybe more?

My previous answer was about the accuracy of human power.
Human power can be useful if needed, I myself use it when I do long rides with a lot of altitude difference, to balance my autonomy with that of the battery.
I wrote that I consider calibration with weight useless.
With the basic calibration, by entering the values of "Pedal torque adc offset" and "Pedal torque adc max" the torque range is remapped to 160, but an estimated value of the presumed point of the change in slope of the torque sensor curve is also calculated, probably 25kg.
Up to that value the torque curve is almost linear, the calculated value of human power is acceptable.
Above 25 kg the value of human power is less reliable, because the torque value can saturate after another 10, 20, 30 or 50kg.

Of course, in Power assist mode, with level multiplier = 20, human power is more than double that of the motor.
With LCD3 and 860C, 20 corresponds to 40% amplification, 100W human power = 40W motor power.
Another example, 50 corresponds to 100% amplification, 100W human power = 100W motor power.

 

[mbrusa]

Cant curve be approached with multiple points of mesure (10 or 20?).
If not why calibrate? Torque offset isn't enough?

Sure, you can build the torque sensor curve with multiple measurement points, but only in theory.
I'm not going to propose a complicated calibration procedure that has no functional utility.
Do you have any idea what it means to get multiple points from 20kg up to the rider's weight?
Try it, then we'll talk about it.

 

[Zambam]

My previous answer was about the accuracy of human power.
Human power can be useful if needed, I myself use it when I do long rides with a lot of altitude difference, to balance my autonomy with that of the battery.
I wrote that I consider calibration with weight useless.
With the basic calibration, by entering the values of "Pedal torque adc offset" and "Pedal torque adc max" the torque range is remapped to 160, but an estimated value of the presumed point of the change in slope of the torque sensor curve is also calculated, probably 25kg.
Up to that value the torque curve is almost linear, the calculated value of human power is acceptable.
Above 25 kg the value of human power is less reliable, because the torque value can saturate after another 10, 20, 30 or 50kg.

Of course, in Power assist mode, with level multiplier = 20, human power is more than double that of the motor.
With LCD3 and 860C, 20 corresponds to 40% amplification, 100W human power = 40W motor power.
Another example, 50 corresponds to 100% amplification, 100W human power = 100W motor power.

I'm not really understanding everything you wrote. Thanks for trying. If you can tell me step by step what I need to do to improve human pedal power reading accuracy, I'd appreciate that. If not, I am happy the way human pedal power behaves as is.

Rode the bike to get lunch today and got to 58 miles on the odo, 39.5V. Never reached that high a mileage before (48V 6 Ah battery). Usually 30 to 40 miles (on higher assist levels).

 

[zanatole]

Sure, you can build the torque sensor curve with multiple measurement points, but only in theory.
I'm not going to propose a complicated calibration procedure that has no functional utility.
Do you have any idea what it means to get multiple points from 20kg up to the rider's weight?
Try it, then we'll talk about it.

Block brake, pedal horizontal
Then use waterbottle your kids and whatever you have.

But seems difficult yes because pedal is small

 

[ozumozge]

Hello, thanks for all informations
Last week i install osf for kt lcd3 to tsdz2 board and lcd3. I observe lcd3 works fine, i made battery motor setups than shows battery voltage, adc values, torque values...But in every mode, motor and lights never work, also walk assistant not working, i know my controller card is ok, i tried orginal firmware, everything is working, can anyone help me,, want to use osf..thanks