Bafang G510/M620 (Bafang Ultra) thread

[realis]

Hi all bafang G510/M620 owners,

This thread is to summarize and share knowledge about Bafang's most powerful mid drive (and possibly most powerful mid drive commonly available). Below information summary:

Manufacturer's website and specs
https://bafang-e.com/oem-area/drive-systems/drive-system/mid/m620-drive-system/

Programming UART version (till end of 2020):
http://frey-bafang.patransformers.com/2020/10/09/bafang-ultra-programming/
https://support.biktrix.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042301971-Stock-Ultra-settings-and-Programming-guide
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=99669
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/11/23/i-void-warranties-hacking-the-bafang-ultra-max-mid-drive-ebike-drive/
Programming CAN version (2021 onwards)
https://lunacycle.com/bafang-besst-service-tool/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=110876

Updated controller threads:
best available option, FOC controller - with efficiency close to Bosch and Yamaha, requires sending motor for upgrade (due to calibration)
https://innotrace-shop.de/produkt/motorenset-x1/
also known as
https://wattwagons.com/products/archon-x1-controller-only-upgrade-for-your-bafang-ultra

other:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=95671

Spare part sources:

https://lunacycle.com/ultra-parts/
https://california-ebike.com/product-category/parts/bafang-ultra/
https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang-8fun-spare-parts/ultra-g510-mid-motor-parts.html
https://mayebikes.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-814430431/Bafang_mid_motor_parts.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.88.49.7f063b59p0Aid2

The last shop - I managed to purchase there small parts not listed on their website.

Most interesting applications:
http://www.frey.bike/
- AM1000 is one of best Ultra applications ever 21Ah Battery
- EX (sorry for being cruel) big dissapointment, serious design failures (details require a different article) 14/28Ah battery
- CC - brilliant idea - fast commuter with simmilar errors as EX, 14Ah battery

Ansbern Old - 21Ah battery, failed seat tube angle

Ansbern New - 17Ah battery


EXESS HP 180 - top of the linne, but is it discontinued?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94997

Luna Apex - sorry too ugly to add link,

others - many Fat bike projects - more ore less successful, I'm not a fan of fatbikes, especially if there are 3" tyres on std ebikes available.

I wrote the above to my best knowledge, to save others research time and hopefully start gathering all knowledge on the subject in the thread below. I had no intention to favour or discredit any brand/shop, producer, however if any statement is wrong from technical perspective or to harsh, pls let me know and I will gladly imrpoove the post.

 

[Deafcat]

I feel like a dozen threads must already exist summarizing this motor, it's very mature tech by now... Did you give the search function a try?

Glad to add info to the thread if not


Some quick tidbits:

- Q-factor is approx 200mm with standard offset crank arms (16mm), can be reduced to about 185mm with aftermarket options (+8,0 offset combo)

- Actual torque output can be in excess of 200 Nm with 52V+ packs and full designed amps (30A). This high torque invalidates most IGH solutions except the heavy, clunky shifting Rohloff. Sturmey Archers will literally self destruct before your eyes, It isn't pretty.

- Aftermarket ESCs can bump the max power beyond 2300W, but results may vary integrating the Torque PAS

- The Excess/Archon controllers claim the highest efficiency values, but they are gutless programming, turning your Mustang into a Prius, basically. Their peak wattage claims are optimistic at best. not very sporty

- Ultra motor is fairly easy to maintain, if you consider dropping the motor and splitting it apart to replace grease, bearings, and clutch parts your ideal way to spend a weekend once a year (or twice a year, if you ride it constantly four seasons, like I have). The parts are no longer expensive, or difficult to get, and the grease is easy to buy (Mobilith SHC 100 optimal)

- At high power levels, the Ultra will consume approximately two cassettes and chainrings per 5000km, in addition to many meters of your finest chain. You could try to use only super tough parts, but they will severely inhibit the options and gearing range of the system (a wide gearing range really benefits the Ultras power delivery over a wide speed range, and it's sporty as hell with lots of gear shifting so long as you cut power during the shifts).


Notes: it's a great motor if you don't mind the increased cost per km for drive train parts+labor, it's one of the sportiest (PEDAL BICYCLE) ebike motors I've ever ridden and I ride it often. Actually, I'd even say it's the gold standard today for ebike mid-drives in North America, good in basically every performance and feature metric, reliable, mostly waterproof, and good value all around. Weight and displacement of the drive unit are on the heavier side, but at least it isn't a noisy little bitch without common crank spline format like the Bafang M600 :lol:

 

[realis]

- Q-factor is approx 200mm with standard offset crank arms (16mm), can be reduced to about 185mm with aftermarket options (+8,0 offset combo)

- The Excess/Archon controllers claim the highest efficiency values, but they are gutless programming, turning your Mustang into a Prius, basically. Their peak wattage claims are optimistic at best. not very sporty

Deafcat thanks for sharing. Could you elaborate more on crankset options to lower the q factor - other than Miranda?

Why would you consider X1 controller gutless programming? Also maybe you have real life experience on efficiency/range gains with X1 vs stock controller? This is a real puzzle to me as I didnt notice power delivery issues whith stock controller, nor any overheating issues even under thogh conditions. Also 35% gains seem technically impossible, but standard 15% when switching from block to FOC is still tempting. I seriously considered this upgrade as FOC is state of the art control mode across virtually all EV applications.

Finally did anyone come across info - whether stock controller is block or sinwave?

 

[mxer]

Great read thanks for sharing .

Absolutely love my Ultra it's insane!!.. eats anything you throw at it.

I'm sure I read somewhere Bafang should be releasing an update shortly how true is this?.

I have a programming cable and have adjusted a few settings but would look forward to see what a 2021 software update would bring.

Thanks again..

 

[xp67]

I find the Ultra annoyingly loud on the Frey 1000HT. Google says that is normal on the Ultra. I have no comparison to brand new condition as the bike was bought used but fairly new. It can be properly be heard from 10m away. Way louder than my other M600 and TSDZ.

Is there a way to reduce the noise? Will grease repacking help?

 

[AHicks]

I find the Ultra annoyingly loud on the Frey 1000HT. Google says that is normal on the Ultra. I have no comparison to brand new condition as the bike was bought used but fairly new. It can be properly be heard from 10m away. Way louder than my other M600 and TSDZ.

Is there a way to reduce the noise? Will grease repacking help?

Somebody, I forget who, is working on a composite gear that was supposed to be released this fall. That's kinda what I'm waiting for.

That in mind, it helps to know that the early/original Ultra (G510) was introduced with a composite gear that ran quietly. Problem was, some who were pushing the Ultra motors WAY higher than their rated power, were having some trouble with the gear, so Bafang installed a metal one that wouldn't melt, eventually changing the model number to M620.

 

[Deafcat]

Actually, those early Ultras with a plastic gear failed within normal operation (30A) pretty easily. They gave up on plastic gears in these stronger offerings, as well as improving the one-way clutch component over the years for better reliability. People still break those occasionally, but only by misusing the power in wrong gear. Bafang also "nerfed" power from a standstill for many motors to protect against that, but it can be fixed in programming.

Sadly, 2021 has brought us more and more nerfs from Bafang for these motors. The new canbus controllers really suck, impossible to get full performance. I still really dig the Ultras, and I don't recommend modifying the stock non-CAN controllers, keep em alive, don't frock with the shunts. 1700W with 52V is plenty, don't get greedy!

 

[jeron]

Hi guys,

I touched a throttle wire (don't know which one) on the frame, spark and controller error... Do you guys think I can fix the controller by replacing some components?

 

[AHicks]

Hi guys,

I touched a throttle wire (don't know which one) on the frame, spark and controller error... Do you guys think I can fix the controller by replacing some components?

Maybe a little more info to give us something to go on would be helpful?

Does the display come on?
Does walk mode work?
Does the pedal assist (PAS) work?

In other words, what works, and what doesn't?

 

[tomjasz]

G510 controllers seem to have issues. By far the most frequent requests for replacements. Adding to the confusion there are two different versions. California eBike has pulled them from their website. Only available now from the Benicia repair shop.

 

[jeron]

late reply sorry. I replaced the controller with a innotrace X1 controller.

 

[robrob3141]

Hello. Are the bolt mount patterns the same for the m600 and m620 utra? I'm trying to find a carbon full suspension frame.

 

[Fast and Furious]

I feel like a dozen threads must already exist summarizing this motor, it's very mature tech by now... Did you give the search function a try?

Glad to add info to the thread if not


Some quick tidbits:

- Q-factor is approx 200mm with standard offset crank arms (16mm), can be reduced to about 185mm with aftermarket options (+8,0 offset combo)

- Actual torque output can be in excess of 200 Nm with 52V+ packs and full designed amps (30A). This high torque invalidates most IGH solutions except the heavy, clunky shifting Rohloff. Sturmey Archers will literally self destruct before your eyes, It isn't pretty.

- Aftermarket ESCs can bump the max power beyond 2300W, but results may vary integrating the Torque PAS

- The Excess/Archon controllers claim the highest efficiency values, but they are gutless programming, turning your Mustang into a Prius, basically. Their peak wattage claims are optimistic at best. not very sporty

- Ultra motor is fairly easy to maintain, if you consider dropping the motor and splitting it apart to replace grease, bearings, and clutch parts your ideal way to spend a weekend once a year (or twice a year, if you ride it constantly four seasons, like I have). The parts are no longer expensive, or difficult to get, and the grease is easy to buy (Mobilith SHC 100 optimal)

- At high power levels, the Ultra will consume approximately two cassettes and chainrings per 5000km, in addition to many meters of your finest chain. You could try to use only super tough parts, but they will severely inhibit the options and gearing range of the system (a wide gearing range really benefits the Ultras power delivery over a wide speed range, and it's sporty as hell with lots of gear shifting so long as you cut power during the shifts).


Notes: it's a great motor if you don't mind the increased cost per km for drive train parts+labor, it's one of the sportiest (PEDAL BICYCLE) ebike motors I've ever ridden and I ride it often. Actually, I'd even say it's the gold standard today for ebike mid-drives in North America, good in basically every performance and feature metric, reliable, mostly waterproof, and good value all around. Weight and displacement of the drive unit are on the heavier side, but at least it isn't a noisy little bitch without common crank spline format like the Bafang M600 :lol:

WTF ??? This may be an old post, but clarification is in order.
You say: "The ... Archon controllers claim the highest efficiency values, but they are gutless programming, turning your Mustang into a Prius, basically. Their peak wattage claims are optimistic at best. not very sporty" leads me to question your experience" ???
Perhaps you can qualify that statement?

I beg to differ.
The 2300watt Archon is far from "gutless" and programming is up to the user.
My 100NM 52lb bike - in it's highest settings - won't touch my 63lb WW w/ Archon - in it's lowest level setting -'Economy Level 1'.
For perspective: The Archon has 5 Econo settings and 5 Sports Mode settings.
In every mode setting from Eco 3 up, the front wheel will come up off the ground on take-off.
The extent of the rise gets pretty damn serious around SP 2.
I've been 34mph, up a slight grade, in 10th of 11 gears - running in Sp 2.
EFFICENCY ???
Without even trying, I get right about 40miles, recharging the 52v 16Ah battery at 46.5 - 47v (w/ 25% left).
I've was (finally) able to reduce it to 39miles by constantly running in Eco L 4 and burning up the tarmac.
The EFFICENCY is OUTSTANDING.
I don't know about what someone told you they heard was on utube, but speaking as an owner I say I love my Archon controller.
I also note that nobody (on any forums) that own these controllers co-sign your statements.
The code is outed and they are now open source. One can program and Archon to 3000 real Watts.
It's on the WW Programming thread at EBR.
Owning this controller is like owning a '67 427 SCI Cobra Crate Motor.
You think not? Try and buy one.
So much of what you say strikes me as 100% accurate, I really had to call you on this crazy stuff.

 

[Fast and Furious]

I feel like a dozen threads must already exist summarizing this motor, it's very mature tech by now... Did you give the search function a try?

Glad to add info to the thread if not


Some quick tidbits:

- Q-factor is approx 200mm with standard offset crank arms (16mm), can be reduced to about 185mm with aftermarket options (+8,0 offset combo)

- Actual torque output can be in excess of 200 Nm with 52V+ packs and full designed amps (30A). This high torque invalidates most IGH solutions except the heavy, clunky shifting Rohloff. Sturmey Archers will literally self destruct before your eyes, It isn't pretty.

- Aftermarket ESCs can bump the max power beyond 2300W, but results may vary integrating the Torque PAS

- The Excess/Archon controllers claim the highest efficiency values, but they are gutless programming, turning your Mustang into a Prius, basically. Their peak wattage claims are optimistic at best. not very sporty

- Ultra motor is fairly easy to maintain, if you consider dropping the motor and splitting it apart to replace grease, bearings, and clutch parts your ideal way to spend a weekend once a year (or twice a year, if you ride it constantly four seasons, like I have). The parts are no longer expensive, or difficult to get, and the grease is easy to buy (Mobilith SHC 100 optimal)

- At high power levels, the Ultra will consume approximately two cassettes and chainrings per 5000km, in addition to many meters of your finest chain. You could try to use only super tough parts, but they will severely inhibit the options and gearing range of the system (a wide gearing range really benefits the Ultras power delivery over a wide speed range, and it's sporty as hell with lots of gear shifting so long as you cut power during the shifts).


Notes: it's a great motor if you don't mind the increased cost per km for drive train parts+labor, it's one of the sportiest (PEDAL BICYCLE) ebike motors I've ever ridden and I ride it often. Actually, I'd even say it's the gold standard today for ebike mid-drives in North America, good in basically every performance and feature metric, reliable, mostly waterproof, and good value all around. Weight and displacement of the drive unit are on the heavier side, but at least it isn't a noisy little bitch without common crank spline format like the Bafang M600 :lol:

WOW !!! Lol. Which Archon X1 have you ridden? They're so powerful, the rep is they eat drivetrains. I can vouch for that.
Owners are consistently getting 100 miles from 16amp batteries.

I don't feel gutless ???

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

whats up with the UART ultra? some people were saying the early ultras were no good. can the canbus bafang be reprogrammed somehow, do you even need to, are either sold engraved at 750w, can the canbus ultra use any battery. does anyone sell complete ultra UART bikes. i found one retailer with 750w UART ultra motor but it was fat mount . is the ultra louder with steel gears . does the ULTRA actually have more torque or just torque sensing

 

[Bengy22]

whats up with the UART ultra? some people were saying the early ultras were no good. can the canbus bafang be reprogrammed somehow, do you even need to, are either sold engraved at 750w, can the canbus ultra use any battery. does anyone sell complete ultra UART bikes. i found one retailer with 750w UART ultra motor but it was fat mount . is the ultra louder with steel gears . does the ULTRA actually have more torque or just torque sensing

UART ultra is fine, I think most will highly prefer it over the canbus, which can be reprogrammed but requires a expensive bafang tool vs a cheap connector and free pc software. You might not need to reprogram but it highly depends on what you want from the motor, programming can change the torque sensors feel, the power you get in each pas mode, change the throttle power, the top speed limiter etc. Also worth mentioning the commonly considered best display for bafang bikes the eggrider doesn't work with canbus motors on uart. You can purchase a 750w ultra if you would like, although I've heard it's not just firmware so I don't believe you can up the power back to stock after if you wanted too. I'm not 100% sure but I believe the canbus can still use a diy battery? Emtbforums probably has more information on that. Lunacycle, Biktric, freybike, "wince" / dengfu, wattwagons. All Ultras come with steel gears which can be somewhat loud, people online do regrease the inside to help lower the noise but bafang actually very recently updated the internal gears and from the few people I've seen talk about it online it does help but it's still very new so not a lot online about this yet. I'm not sure exactly what you mean with the last comment, the Ultra / m620 definitely has a lot more torque than say a m600 if that's what you mean, it's not just marketing you can tell the difference immediately.

 

[mcfizzlestag]

Not sure about any UART full bikes, but i was able to get a current m620 UART motor kit from greenbikekit's website. Included the new rotor design, 1000W, and i was able to use one of my already owned eggriders with it to program most settings. Only issue i've been having is a power save mode thats forced on you at ~30% battery voltage. The reseller told me nothing can be done about it, but im sure theres a firmware out there that turns this off. I was hitting this wall that limited me to 350W suddenly on my rides up the mountain and wondering why no one has complained more about it, especially people with large packs. I was losing access to 6AH of battery because of this. I figured it must not be this bad for most people, and there must be a variable its based off. So a few days of testing and horrible rides up the mountain:

Power Save mode is 43% of your programmed current limit.
Default is 30A, so you will get maximum 13A when you hit it. Unfortunately, i had mine set to 18A and so it was rough endings to my commutes, being limited to 7.7A while on 11% grade. I haven't finished testing, i still need to find out if theres different tiers of power save as the battery drains further, and if Offroad mode uses a different threshold. You cant go higher than 13A unfortunately due to firmware restrictions on the current limit.

So if you want to still limit your current, i will recommend leaving the Limited Current: 30 Amps. Instead change your Assist levels to compensate. Ive set my Assist 9: Limited Current 60% which equals 18 Amps

Noise wise, itsmuch quieter than a cyc stealth. My bbshd had a chain guard to correct the chain line when climbing, its quieter than that, but not quieter than a bbshd with a good chainline. Only time its get a bit louder is when you are maxing out the motors RPMs by being in too low of a gear.

 

[Fast and Furious]

Hello. Are the bolt mount patterns the same for the m600 and m620 utra? I'm trying to find a carbon full suspension frame.

No. G510 is a BIG (heavy) motor for CF frames. These beasts ( I run up to 1000 - 2600 watts) are for 250 - 300lb folks
Why go as ight as possible (CF), but use heavy drivetrain? CF's weight weenie material and that's it's only performance virtue.
It's the most prone to damage. CF frames die simply from flexing. Alloy lasts longer and far less prone to terminal damage. Steel's 'weight weenie' defeatist.
That leaves titanium (Disclaimer: 100% biased, I own a ti framed M620. Mia Culpa), the right stuff in MHO.
But 'damn the torpedoes. You want a big-dog M620/ G510 in a bad boy CF frame, WattWagons still has Hydra's in stock.
That's a 'custom shop' and Hydra's aren't for the faint of heart; dedicated high-grade MB suspension; a 'Big Guy's' bikes; top of the 'street legal' heap.
In (5) 'Eco" modes Ultra powered Hydra's are 100% street legal beasts - and they also have 5 levels of blistering 'off-road' performance modes.
Hope this hlps.

FF

 

[Fast and Furious]

whats up with the UART ultra? some people were saying the early ultras were no good. can the canbus bafang be reprogrammed somehow, do you even need to, are either sold engraved at 750w, can the canbus ultra use any battery. does anyone sell complete ultra UART bikes. i found one retailer with 750w UART ultra motor but it was fat mount . is the ultra louder with steel gears . does the ULTRA actually have more torque or just torque sensing

It's Bafang's monopoly move to shut down competition that's better than they are - and makes all CANBUS bike require all CANBUS parts - like display, etc. It's also a lot more difficult to tune for any higher performance than 1000watts.
Even choked at 750 -1000watts, this motor has it right away. You program to x input on pedals, it's there from the git-go.
The X1 controller in sports modes is so powerful, the slow-up's shifting the 11SP. Even being well experienced and using superbly tuned Archer D1X wireless shifting with a 52T Chainring, the power is immense and quite dangerous.
I don't use X1's SP modes. With a laptop, correct interface cord and the two files (cough, cough). which I (downloaded and saved before EBR took them down and banned certain posters) tried, the controller can be tuned up to 3000watts.
Full Admin privilege's. Great for 300lb people, and groovy, but useless for my scrawny carcass.
I start at 800watts in Eco L1 and peak at 1600watts in Eco L5. L2 at 1000watts will do inadvertent wheelies. Caution is required.
Charging the 16Ah battery to 80% and re-charging at 20- 25%, I'm getting 76 -78 miles. Not really trying to set a record, I just like some exercise.
EFFICENCY IS OUTSTANDING. Of course this assumes quality hi-discharge cells.



The X1 in 1000 x 1600watt mode has better efficiency than the 'third party's' 1800 x 2500watt controller.
Can't speak for Archon's numbers, but I know the X1 has 350 - 400% better efficiency than my 1000watt Hub-Drive.
X1 is the go-to controller in Europe - off-road. I doubt you can even find one, but if you do I have ownership rights and can be PMed for access to the programming files.

 

[Fast and Furious]

UART ultra is fine, I think most will highly prefer it over the canbus, which can be reprogrammed but requires a expensive bafang tool vs a cheap connector and free pc software. You might not need to reprogram but it highly depends on what you want from the motor, programming can change the torque sensors feel, the power you get in each pas mode, change the throttle power, the top speed limiter etc. Also worth mentioning the commonly considered best display for bafang bikes the eggrider doesn't work with canbus motors on uart. You can purchase a 750w ultra if you would like, although I've heard it's not just firmware so I don't believe you can up the power back to stock after if you wanted too. I'm not 100% sure but I believe the canbus can still use a diy battery? Emtbforums probably has more information on that. Lunacycle, Biktric, freybike, "wince" / dengfu, wattwagons. All Ultras come with steel gears which can be somewhat loud, people online do regrease the inside to help lower the noise but bafang actually very recently updated the internal gears and from the few people I've seen talk about it online it does help but it's still very new so not a lot online about this yet. I'm not sure exactly what you mean with the last comment, the Ultra / m620 definitely has a lot more torque than say a m600 if that's what you mean, it's not just marketing you can tell the difference immediately.

Well, sorta, but early M620's had plastic gears, then came metal gears and now comes a higher tooth-count metal; gears on 3rd and the rotor.
And LIGHTLY greasing is recommended every 1500miles for all the gears.
The higher tooth-count 3rd is advertised as quieter, at $40 inexpensive but also requires a new style ($66) matching rotor.
My maintenance is this November. That'll be 2000miles on that motor's grease. If gears show wear, I'll replace then.
My hearing isn't that fabulous. The motor sounds (rrr, rrrrr, rrrrRR, rrRRRR, RRRRRR) about the same as new. That watt crunching basso-whine is actually an M620 hallmark. Preference between noisier or quieter gears is far less of a concern than annual 1500mile overhaul to lube limitations. Which off course require's 'calibration' after replacing those parts.
W/ Archon X1 UART Controller "calibrate" is in the program files.
W/ Bafang CANBUS calibration requires buying more PRC integration tools and provides a very limited setting selection. Over 1000watts is not available.

 

[Fast and Furious]

This thread was accurate for it's time. More is now known.
The M620 is pretty invincible. At lower wattage it will climb a mountain.
People saying we (who actually use this motor in it's working capacity) are over-what-evering, can't see Bafang is detuning M620's from the git-go to meet Western World regulations?
Thing is, 750 or 2300watts the grease'll spin off at the same mileage. Centrifical force doesn't care about watts.
The current 1500mile Lube schedule requires some skills and trusting an LBS can be tricky.
With ownership comes responsibility, an expensive journey at least, and time consuming.
The M620's capable of performing like a 100,000 mile car - w/ lubrication that will last 10,000 miles. In fact, I'm working on it.
Negatives? It's HEAVY. A BIG GUY's Motor.
Using skinny tires? uh uh. It needs a fat patch of rubber that can grip the terrain.
Totally unforgiving of weaker downstream drivetrain parts, the chain-line is lousy on most frames, so more wear and the wide stance means a big Q Factor.
Parts add up. You'll be tempted to upgrade with like quality, and that's expensive.
Belt drive's proven problematic and even 750watt versions exceed torque levels voiding any Western Made IGH Warranty. Thus, unless you go Bafang's - coming soon-to-a supplier near you - mega-weight, delivery bike tranny - there are no logical options.

Of all 'Street Legal' (Class: I, II or III) e-bike motors, the G510/ M620's the one to beat.

F'nF

 

[Fast and Furious]

Carry plenty of weight - like 100lbs easy. Shopping's a breeze. It's an HD truck Motor if asked to haul stuff.




Eye catching, but discreet. Perfect for an undercover Godzilla bike that can't afford paint.


Low down and dirty ...




Present iteration



Love me some M620 w/ Archon X1 !!! rrrr, rrrrR, rrRRR, RRRRRR - zoom !!!
The 11x 40T 11SP slows thing up. Would be much faster (0 -20mph) w/ an 8 - 9SP (11 x34T). But it's 63lbs of titanium and steel - so bicycle style start-offs would take some strength.
This motor handles weight like it's not really there. Bike too. LOL.
I don't ride in the rain or through water, so 'waterproofing' debates are for those who do.
Great motor for 'whatever you got, bring it' City/ Cross Country terrain. Assuming you have the right frame and running gear.

F'nF

 

[1boris]

Imo its the best ebike motor available, people seem to have forgot about this motor and by all kind of new weak shit that overheat or breaks down easily.Stock program made my motor terrible,so usually programing is importent to get the right impression of this motor

 

[shap08]

Imo its the best ebike motor available, people seem to have forgot about this motor and by all kind of new weak shit that overheat or breaks down easily.Stock program made my motor terrible,so usually programing is importent to get the right impression of this motor

There is not enough discussion on program settings, would you mind sharing yours?

 

[Fast and Furious]

Depends on your controller options. Mine are European nomenclature. Bafang are Chinese to English nomenclature.
Your question's vague, lacks information. If I share "Mine" and you don't have an X1, how does that help you?
But certainly !!! Just as soon as you provide relevant information WTF you are talking about.