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Mini Hiryuu v2 - 1.5kw lightest.bike drive on cheap hardtail

Nice! I've been looking at that same one. for my main bike. The dual motor one looks great for my other bike. I'd like the bluetooth option so I can use my iPhone as a display. That or repurposing my CA3. Looking forward to seeing your experience with this.
 
Ah, i have the bluetooth option but i have never connected it. CA V2 standalone is good enough for me.
I have no idea what this bluetooth app looks like but i'm betting it's good.

I can tell you that the VESC is worth buying!
 
I've used multiple apps with VESC over bluetooth and they're quite good. (The METR, now voyage, is really great, but does require a different add-on board). I've also used a dedicated VESC display.

There's something to be said for having information at a glance without having to "sacrifice" your phone to the handlebars, and also have to remember to pull up the app, and connect it so it's constantly charging, etc, etc, etc.
 
Cool, thanks! An app would work for me. I already have a wireless iPhone charger on my handlebars. So not taking anymore room than normal. I can even assign a shortcut to a physical button so, I press it when I dock the phone, the vesc app would open.

Is it safe to assume that the Spintend can recognize the coupled temp/speed sensor? Same as a BaseRunner.
 
There's something to be said for having information at a glance without having to "sacrifice" your phone to the handlebars, and also have to remember to pull up the app, and connect it so it's constantly charging, etc, etc, etc.

Man, after a day of working on technology i just can't stand clunky technology like that. I've crashed and damaged my phone before, i'd also rather have a single function, simple device that just works that i don't have to screw with. I don't see something like that on the market for VESC yet - something like a ebikes.ca superharness. Correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Is it safe to assume that the Spintend can recognize the coupled temp/speed sensor? Same as a BaseRunner.

I strongly doubt it, that seems to be a proprietary thing ( but not a bad idea tbh ).

VESC display: seems like a nerd's toy, no mention of it having an external speed sensor, may not work with mid drive
Megan display: Nice, but that price hurts, don't like cloud features, no mention of external speed sensor, but i imagine it can read speed via GPS.

New cycle analysts can read a temp sensor and work standalone, are about the price of the VESC display, and provide a simple view of things. It looks like you could modulate the throttle on a VESC with one as long as you used this adapter board, but i don't need that. i'd rather do the 5v throttle on the 3.3v line thing.
 
Thinking about the temp sensor......It probably is a proprietary ASI thing. However, If using my phone as a display then maybe I could just use GPS speed in a VESC app. If not, I think having temp readout is more important than speed readout. I can feel when I'm going too fast. I'm always aware of my speed. Might be nice though if I can pipe that speed/temp signal right to the CA. I might have to snip some wires but, I could keep the CA on my bike and repurpose it. I would need the shunt though but, will have room since the VESC is smaller than the BaseRunner.
 
I'm not sure, the CA precedes the ASI controllers and may be compatible with a few different temp sensors.
 
I've decided to not tackle the controller for a moment. I need more crank forwardness first.

A new 1.2lbs lighter, 120mm Suntour Epixon ( $220 2024 model, new on ebay ) fork is being fitted.
I have short mounts for the lightest.bike mid drive in hand, hoping to lower the CoG of the mid drive a bit.

Thinking about upside down mounted battery for the maxarya gave me an idea:
How about mounting the battery on the seat tube, then taking advantage of this huge triangle and put a frame bag in front of it?

This would be more stealth looking since the center of the frame is a bunch of black, and the mid drive is not hanging out so much.

I see more and more dumb people on e-things riding like jerks lately so i'm concerned with being the dolphin caught in the tuna net, even though i ride respectfully and always pedal.

So stealth takes a higher priority for me going forward.

More later.
 
Okay, we now have an air fork that's half the weight and in actuality, 15mm taller.

My legs are OK with the offset on the outlier pedals, but it's hard to correctly position my feet on them, and it feels awkward to ride. I'm continually trying to adjust my foot position once i get started from a stop. This is very annoying.

I'd say the outlier pedals are a fail. it would be better to run 180mm cranks to get the lowness happening. But that involves ditching the mid drive for my 8lbs geared motor, which sucks, but is okay.

There is barely enough crank forwardness still. I can't use my forefoot to pedal. I'm strongly considering going to a 27.5" x 2.4" rear, or find some way to adjust the front fork upwards another 10-20mm.

The only upside is that the feel of the frontend is divinely good now.
It looks like the battery mounted on the seattube idea would work. The final look would be super clean.

As of now:

gmail.jpg
 
Not too much going on here.
Swapped from a 29" x 1.25" to a 27.5 x 2.2". They are within millimeters of the same height.
Ride quality is still good. Let's say it's ~2% worse than running a 29 x 2.0" in the back.

The resulting seat tube angle is just good enough for me to pedal with my forefoot and i'm relatively happy with it.
One downside of such a slack fork angle is that the steering got wobbly below 10mph. For this reason, i removed the side crash bars and moved the grips outwards by ~20mm. This was enough added leverage to adjust the wobbly point down to 5mph. That was easy!

mini hiryuu.jpg

The front Maxxis 2.5" popped from a midsize goathead ( pathetic ), so i put a 29 x 1.95" Kenda Drumlin on. This is the largest size of that tire type for a 29".

Pedal clearance is 4.5" at the bottom of the stroke, so i'm not in the danger zone. I could reduce the rear tire from 2.2" to 2.0".

Having dual Kenda Drumlins docks me 1-2mph on pedal power. I run high-ish PSI to minimize the loss. I may go for a rear 29 x 2.0" for aesthetics purposes and to lower the rotating weight on the back a smidge.


I'm moving to a place that i must ascend 3 sets of stairs to get to. So i am seriously considering a 500whr battery and a super light powertrain.
 
Yo!
Still an acoustic bike.

mini hiryu.jpg

Running on a pair of Kenda Drumlins, I can feel the rotating weight and it makes the bike burdensome up any incline.
It's quite fast on any decline.
I would be hesitant to take it on the kind of long ride that such wonderful goathead-proof ( so far! ) tires enable.
The rotating weight must go down because the bike must be more pedal able with the motor off.

Strongly thinking about a Keyde P110 motor. 2.4kg / 5.3lbs, 90% efficient, and looks like 500w ( or more ) continuous.
Supposedly they freewheel exceptionally well. But durability of roller drive is a big ?.

As of now i have a 500w rated ~7.5lbs Bafang in a 700c wheel.
Not ideal, but i'm short on cash for toys lately. So ride it if you got it, eh?
I think i'll hook it up & see if i can get some serious miles in on these tires and hopefully restore my lost confidence in taking long joyrides in this area to goatheads.

There's an area 5 miles away that locals call 'goathead gulch'. It would be a fine place to test these tires out.
 
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Yo!
Still an acoustic bike.

View attachment 389498

Running on a pair of Kenda Drumlins, I can feel the rotating weight and it makes the bike burdensome up any incline.
It's quite fast on any decline.
I would be hesitant to take it on the kind of long ride that such wonderful goathead-proof ( so far! ) tires enable.
The rotating weight must go down because the bike must be more pedal able with the motor off.

Strongly thinking about a Keyde P110 motor. 2.4kg / 5.3lbs, 90% efficient, and looks like 500w ( or more ) continuous.
Supposedly they freewheel exceptionally well. But durability of roller drive is a big ?.

As of now i have a 500w rated ~7.5lbs Bafang in a 700c wheel.
Not ideal, but i'm short on cash for toys lately. So ride it if you got it, eh?
I think i'll hook it up & see if i can get some serious miles in on these tires and hopefully restore my lost confidence in taking long joyrides in this area to goatheads.

There's an area 5 miles away that locals call 'goathead gulch'. It would be a fine place to test these tires out.
Flatout makes goatheads something that I don't worry to much about.
 
I've had lots of bad experiences with sealants out here. The main reason might be that i ride high PSI, for efficiency.


Tires are here. I now have:
29" x 1.65" Kenda Drumlin for the rear
29" x 2.0" Kenda Kwick Nine for the front ( same weight as my previous 29" x 2.5" )

With a bit taller tire, seat height is a notch away from having to dislocate my hip to get on the bike. It's not too much of a challenge to put a foot down at a stoplight. So this is as tall as we get.

I have the motor wheel on without a battery connected.
~1lbs rotating weight reduction made a BIG difference when pedaling up any kind of incline. I do notice that conversely, the bike holds it's momentum less well. This is good.

The weight of the 8lbs motor makes it cumbersome going down 3 sets of narrow stairs. My 52v 20ah battery is another 8lbs.
I think we need a 350w rated motor and a 2P battery with 6ah or 6.5ah cells to get the weight down to carryable. I think an added weight budget of 10lbs is reasonable.

Comfort seems improved over the 27.5 x 2.2" until we hit a big bump at speed. Then the suspension seat post is doing the former air cushion's job. I do plan to get a Thudbuster LT in the future, so i think at high speeds, this might still work out.

More later!
 
I've had lots of bad experiences with sealants out here. The main reason might be that i ride high PSI, for efficiency.
Wait, but do you actually run them tubeless? I think that's a considerable effciency boost over tubes in itself, and puncture resistance is just a bonus then.

EDIT: did a search in the thread and saw you mentioned sealant but it seemed like you were planning to use it with tubes. I personally feel that people use way too much of this stuff, but the main benefit would be to be able to ditch tubes entirely, of course.
 
I'm using tubes. Neither of these kendas is tubeless rated.
Does that matter if i'd use a stans rim strip?

You're right. I'm throwing out potential efficiency. I'm thinking about a TPU tube for the rear, since i never see a goathead fragment in it. This should get me close to tubeless rolling resistance at worst.
 
There's inexpensive aftermarket TLR rims, you don't need to pay DT Swiss prices. Alex makes some, as do Mach, and others.

However, to make a conversion economical you need to find a rim with ERD +\- 2mm of your current rim, so that you can lace the new rim straight across without disassembling the wheel. (Always worth paying more for a matching ERD rim than having to dismantle and buy new spokes.)

For tubeless conversion I'd strongly recommend the rim swap. Conversion tape secures the beads so that you can inflate the tire, but without the extra deep recessed central channel of a TLR rim to provide extra slack it's a battle and a half to get tires on rims. They're a tighter fit than regular tires -even if you're a wizard with tire levers and have orangutang forearms it can be a struggle.

Rims vary in the depth of central valley, you might be lucky and have deep ones. Or unlucky and have ridiculous dead flat no curvature whatsoever like some old Italian road rims.

At the very least, buy the TLR tires first, remove your rim tape, and attempt to fit them. If it's much of a battle you'll have a hell of a time once conversion tape is installed.

I think your latex tube option is sensible. The rolling resistance vs tubeless is negligible. Primary reason for tubeless needs to be puncture sealing, not watt saving

Although, an underappreciated reason is permeability. Tubeless tires hold air amazingly well - you can go ages without needing to top them up. Latex tubes on the other hand ... I have not used them, but suspect given how thin they are that you'll be topping up more frequently than rubber tubes, which is already way too often for my liking.
 
Does that matter if i'd use a stans rim strip?
The companies selling the tyres and rims would say "definitely yes" and tell you that you need TLR rims and TLR tyres.

In my experience, as long as you understand how rim+tyre interface works, and you understand how tubeless tyres work, you can easily judge whether a given setup will be workable.

Example: TLR rims have larger diameter to account for the better seal. However, you're wrapping tape on the rim anyway - there's nothing stopping you from adding two more wraps to build up the thickness.
Even if you're a wizard with tire levers and have orangutang forearms it can be a struggle
Compared to larger-format motorcycle tyres, anything on bikes is comparatively quite pliable. In fact, the main risk I've witnessed is the tyre being too soft to properly form the initial seal. The initial seal is half the battle - if the tyre has intact bead, and the rim has intact lip, it should all eventually seal and close up. This might take days. Afterwards, it's all a matter of keeping the pressure on.

Tubeless setups get progressively easier to maintain pressure the higher pressure you have, because the pressure doesn't just hold the vehicle up, it also pushes the tyre to the rim. Bicycle tyres don't normally run rimlocks, and so are susceptible to spinning on the rim under heavy breaking. In my experience, you can progressively lower the pressure with time, after the tyre slowly conforms to the shape of the rim.

TPU tubes are lightweight and pack super small but have horrible puncture resistance. I would consider them only as a backup for if/when your tubeless tyre loses seal when out. That's the main reason why i recommend going TL to everyone - the worst case scenario is just putting the tube in. And as long as you don't put absurd amounts of sealant, you can just wipe the minuscule amount left with a tissue.

For reference, my 150/80-18" tyre on a 4" rim used 40ml of sealant, and that was likely twice as much as required. I don't believe in using the sealant as a preventative measure for punctures, and thus don't see the reason to fill more than absolutely necessary to seat the bead on.

So, practically, if your tyres are in a reasonably good condition[1], have intact beads and your rims are straight, you should be able to just apply tape and a very small amount (or none) of sealant and get them to fit. In fact, I'd start with just soapy water instead of sealant to get an idea of how it's going to sit if you're unsure[2]. At that stage, you're almost guaranteed to have a leak after the tyre gets on the rim. That's normal and expected, and can come from (typically) one of two places - either the tape or the bead. Tape leaks will manifest on spoke nipples, bead leaks obviously on the bead. Pump the tyre to maximum nominal pressure - which can be a lot for a bike tyre, again, which helps a lot. If you can get it to hold air for ~15 minutes, go for a ride. If you can't (deflates in a couple minutes), let it sit under pressure for an hour or so, adding air as needed. If it deflates almost instantly after correctly seating on the bead, that's where I'd add a small amount of sealant and then try to keep it at pressure as long as possible. Ideally, with more time and more sealant penetration, you should be able to increase the time (decrease the leak rate) eventually to almost perfect 0. Again, this might take days and a couple rides. Last tyre we did, an experimental size mismatch on an experimentally laced rim, took about a week to finally start holding pressure. AFAIK, it's now losing virtually no air - while the owner was ready to call it hopeless and put a tube back in, against my suggestion, on day 1.

My personal bike's (not motorcycle) front tyre is a cheap 2.4" Kenda, and for the first couple days, i could get it to burp sealant with bare hand pressure even at 3.0+ bar pressure. Now it can sit at 1.0, low enough where i can press the tyre down to the rim almost, and I wouldn't be able to do that.

I wasn't intending to write this post as a guide but here we are I guess :D

[1] IME it's best to use a brand new tyre.
[2] This means that if at any point you decide my advice is crap, you really have no mess to clean up.
 
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