Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[smdub]

MPPT charges your storage battery. In my case thats a 24V pack. (I could also theoretically charge this from the vans alternator when its running using a converter.) For the sake of discussion here, once the energy is in the storage battery it doesn't really matter how it gets there.
Inverter runs from the storage battery to make 120Vac. Ballpark 85% efficient.
SurRon charger converts 120Vac to 60Vdc to charge the bike. Lets say that 90% efficient for sake of argument.
So energy from your storage battery to the Surron has 85% * 90% = 76.5% efficiency. For every Wh of energy put into your SurRon, you have to draw 1Wh/76.5%=1.3Wh of energy from the storage battery. Make sense? If you can get a charger that avoids the DC to AC to DC conversion, you can improve efficiency.

People have even modified their Starlink power supplies to run straight from DC to increase efficiency a little. When you live off solar (or any limited power source) every little bit helps.
https://www.tuckstruck.net/truck-and-kit/geekery/modifying-the-starlink-power-supply-to-run-on-ac-and-dc/

Edit: What may be confusion is that the Nuc controller has a mode that can charge the SurRon battery if you simply connect another (lower) DC voltage. I can connect my 24V van house battery and use the Nuc controller to charge the SurRon battery w/o an AC inverter or oem SurRon AC powered charger. I guess not many people know this is possible.

 

[3DTOPO]

Inverter runs from the storage battery to make 120Vac. Ballpark 85% efficient.
SurRon charger converts 120Vac to 60Vdc to charge the bike. Lets say that 90% efficient for sake of argument.

I'm not planning on using the Sur Ron charger.

It's like this: Solar Cell -> MPPT Controller -> Sur Ron battery

Not like this: Solar Cell -> Battery Bank -> Inverter -> Sur Ron Charger -> Sur Ron battery

People have even modified their Starlink power supplies to run straight from DC to increase efficiency a little. When you live off solar (or any limited power source) every little bit helps.
https://www.tuckstruck.net/truck-and-kit/geekery/modifying-the-starlink-power-supply-to-run-on-ac-and-dc/

Thanks, the thought occurred to me that I can run stuff DC. Pretty much everything is DC, my computer, battery/device chargers, yes Starlink etc.

 

[smdub]

Got it! Where did you find a 60-70V MPPT and inverter? 12/24/48V are pretty common but not higher LiPo voltages.

Edit: The SurRon BMS open circuits when it reaches full. You're going to have to be really careful if running an inverter from it also.

 

[3DTOPO]

Got it! Where did you find a 60-70V MPPT and inverter? 12/24/48V are pretty common but not higher LiPo voltages.

Edit: The SurRon BMS open circuits when it reaches full. You're going to have to be really careful if running an inverter from it also.

https://amzn.to/3N6lvee

The Sur Ron charges to 67.2 VDC. If you set the MPPT to 66V it will stop before cell-balancing (from what I've read).

 

[3DTOPO]

Here's my complete system, everything works!

I charged the battery with the solar for the first time yesterday. 8)

I just have one 100 watt panel for now - going to get another. It weighs 5 pounds and 16x16 inches. The harness is wired for three panels (and the MPPT I got supports 300 watts).

My inverter is putting out 220V that can be split to two 110V outlets (going to use GFCIs).

Un-limted range (given some time to soak up some photons) and actual broadband just about anywhere now!

Oh - the only thing is, when I connect the inverter to the battery I get a big spark - even when the inverter is off. Anyone know what connection or signal needs to go to the battery to disable DC power out?

 

[smdub]

Handy 3-n-1 machine and very nice optical(?) table.

The spark is the inverter's bulk filter capacitors charging up. You need to precharge them or use something like an anti-spark connector (AS90) to do so.

Fuse your battery connection as close to the battery as practical. That MPPT has to be a POS for the price but as long as it works, it works. If something goes wrong you want the fuse to blow and not start a fire. If the failure draws current that is lower than the BMS trip limit it can set the wires on fire. 300W MPPT / 60V = 5A max. So w/ the 1.25x UL fuse derate, look for a 6.5-10A fuse and size wire accordingly. Do similar calcs for the inverter (though it needs ~2x sizing due to the high RMS current on the DC side)

Is your 220V inverter center ground referenced/balanced? Not many cheap ones are. Be careful trying to run to separate 120V circuits from it. It likely wont like unbalanced phases either.

2kWh/100W = 20H of charging for a full charge. (~4days w/ good sun) Wife/kiddo/I can't wait that long Its clever doing what you are doing w/o intermediate storage and having it portable though. Kudos!

 

[KeithT]

The inverter has a large capacitor on the input that wants to charge instantly on connection. Best to precharge it through a resistor first. I use a 4.7k 1W to do that for a few seconds before connecting.

 

[3DTOPO]

Handy 3-n-1 machine and very nice optical(?) table.
The spark is the inverter's bulk filter capacitors charging up. You need to precharge them or use something like an anti-spark connector (AS90) to do so.
Fuse your battery connection as close to the battery as practical. That MPPT has to be a POS for the price but as long as it works, it works. If something goes wrong you want the fuse to blow and not start a fire. If the failure draws current that is lower than the BMS trip limit it can set the wires on fire. 300W MPPT / 60V = 5A max. So w/ the 1.25x UL fuse derate, look for a 6.5-10A fuse and size wire accordingly. Do similar calcs for the inverter (though it needs ~2x sizing due to the high RMS current on the DC side)
Is your 220V inverter center ground referenced/balanced? Not many cheap ones are. Be careful trying to run to separate 120V circuits from it. It likely wont like unbalanced phases either.
2kWh/100W = 20H of charging for a full charge. (~4days w/ good sun) Wife/kiddo/I can't wait that long Its clever doing what you are doing w/o intermediate storage and having it portable though. Kudos!

Actually, the MPPT seems quite nice - has a decent size inductor - allows 0.1V increments - shows the voltage of the battery and other stats.

Thanks for the tips. I have a fuse for the MPPT and the inverter has one built-in. Not sure why I would need anything else other than something to precharge or preferably just turn the power off coming out of the battery?

I used 8-gauge wire for connecting the battery to the inverter. Based on my research it should be fine.

Yes, as I said I'm definitely going to add more panels but you got to start somewhere. 2-3 panels should get most of charge in a day, I never really run my battery below 20-30%.

Thanks, indeed it is a good old optical table.

Edit: yes the inverter must be ground balanced it wouldn't work split :wink:

 

[3DTOPO]

Building a cart primarily out of the stock fork! Pic is rough layout - have plans to add a shock.

I suppose it will partially power my ride direct from the sun - any excess electrons will get dumped to the pack.

It will also have some saddle bags on the cart for excursions.

 

[Chalo]

You'd best put all those panels on the same horizontal plane. The way they're arranged now, at least one of them will be poorly illuminated at any given time. If they're in series, that will bring the performance of the entire array down to that of the most shaded panel.

 

[3DTOPO]

You'd best put all those panels on the same horizontal plane. The way they're arranged now, at least one of them will be poorly illuminated at any given time. If they're in series, that will bring the performance of the entire array down to that of the most shaded panel.

I'll see how it works - can always tweak it. Not a bad suggestion - thank you.

My thinking with different angles was that it is kind of an average - versus with a plane they all could be at the wrong angle.

 

[3DTOPO]

P.S.

The panel puts out usable juice even with indirect light and/or in the shade.

 

[Chalo]

My thinking with different angles was that it is kind of an average - versus with a plane they all could be at the wrong angle.

If they're in series, the worst one will bottleneck all the others. There's no averaging.

If they're in parallel, then it's more or less as you say, as long as they're diode isolated from each other.

I ran across this issue when building a solar charging e-bike in the late '90s. There was a cell array on the side of the frame, and another on a disc wheel in front. I made an electrical slip ring to carry juice from the wheel array to the charge controller, even when the bike was rolling. Unfortunately, the shadow cast by the fork leg just killed the wheel panel's output, and the wheel had to be removed and set beside the bike for effective charging.

 

[3DTOPO]

My thinking with different angles was that it is kind of an average - versus with a plane they all could be at the wrong angle.

If they're in series, the worst one will bottleneck all the others. There's no averaging.

If they're in parallel, then it's more or less as you say, as long as they're diode isolated from each other.

Thanks for the clarification. Without taking it apart, is there a way to tell how the are wired?

 

[Chalo]

Without taking it apart, is there a way to tell how the are wired?

What's the open circuit voltage of the whole thing?

Small solar panels are often configured for 12V applications, so they'll have a sunlit open circuit voltage of about 18V.

You could hook it up to a load that it can support in full sun, then shade one of the squares to see if the output falls on its face.

 

[3DTOPO]

Without taking it apart, is there a way to tell how the are wired?

What's the open circuit voltage of the whole thing?

Small solar panels are often configured for 12V applications, so they'll have a sunlit open circuit voltage of about 18V.

DC output voltage: 18V /5.56A Max

 

[3DTOPO]

Without taking it apart, is there a way to tell how the are wired?

to a load that it can support in full sun, then shade one of the squares to see if the output falls on its face.

Honestly, I think this (very crudely) is a better setup - more room for gear and less extreme angles in the panel. Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Sur Ron Partners with Red Bull Tennessee Knockout TKO Hard Enduro race :

The Red Bull Tennessee Knockout (TKO) has teamed up with the eMoto content creators at Electric Cycle Rider (ECR) to announce the first-ever eMoto class at the 2022 TKO on August 12-14 in Sequatchie, TN.
“The interest in electric motorcycles is growing around the world and we want to showcase the capabilities of the latest versions from several manufacturers at the premier Hard Enduro event in North America,” said Eric Peronnard, the co-producer of the Red Bull Tennessee Knockout.
The all-electric class, named ECR eMoto, will compete on an approximately 14-mile-long course that features challenging obstacles on Saturday morning, starting immediately following the last of the amateur riders. The single race will decide the ECR eMoto class championship but any ECR eMoto participant that completes the course within the 2.5-hour time limit will be eligible to compete in the TKO Amateur race two on Saturday afternoon (riders will need to compete on the same motorcycle).
The ECR eMoto class will be an open format that will allow production electric motorcycles of all power levels with a minimum rear wheel size of 16 inches. Riders of all skill levels that are 16 years of age and older will be eligible to enter the ECR eMoto class...

https://surron.ca/blogs/news/sur-ron-partners-with-red-bull-tennessee-knockout

https://tennesseeknockoutenduro.com/emoto-class-created-for-2022-red-bull-tennessee-knockout-hard-enduro-separate-class-open-to-all-electric-motorcycle-manufacturers/

 

[stuntmanmike]

Been a while since I’ve posted here, I bought my SurRon in 2018 after the initial rave reviews I read about here on ES and have never stopped mod’ing it, the only things I’ve left stock are some covers and trim, belt tensioner and the frame.

 

[smokey85]

hi guys new here and new to surron's.. recently purchased an L1E after a ride out it powers on but no motor action and on the dash the battery does not show any voltage also it says error --002 can anyone help please

 

[Rix]

hi guys new here and new to surron's.. recently purchased an L1E after a ride out it powers on but no motor action and on the dash the battery does not show any voltage also it says error --002 can anyone help please

If you bought it new from Luna, they include a "tester" tool, plug that in to one of the harness plugs, and it will give you a blink code. Note what the blink code is, such as 2 fast 1 slow green/red, something like that, then contact Luna, and they will be able to tell you what the problem is. On my SurRon X, then ended up sending me a whole new controller, I got it mounted and the bike worked perfect every since.

 

[smokey85]

thanks for the reply no i did not buy it from luna its a used bike from ebay.. however i have had some progression now i have error 211 so i will be replacing the throttle and hopefully get back to riding and having fun again

 

[Rix]

Been a while since I’ve posted here, I bought my SurRon in 2018 after the initial rave reviews I read about here on ES and have never stopped mod’ing it, the only things I’ve left stock are some covers and trim, belt tensioner and the frame.
4ED99FAC-C69C-45C0-AECD-8BC8642C6F6E.jpeg
000AB8E4-50EA-4BE4-BC18-D7283E777DFF.jpeg
9CC73D57-4415-45DD-9EB9-0B2589C2E06C.jpeg

This really came out good, in fact, probably "Death Proof"

 

[Quinc]

Been a while since I’ve posted here, I bought my SurRon in 2018 after the initial rave reviews I read about here on ES and have never stopped mod’ing it, the only things I’ve left stock are some covers and trim, belt tensioner and the frame.
4ED99FAC-C69C-45C0-AECD-8BC8642C6F6E.jpeg

what swing arm is that and how do you like it?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

missed the Red Bull Tennessee Knockout TKO Hard Enduro??
her is your next chance to Race Electric..
SEER Going Electric!
SEER, South East Extreme Riders, Hard Enduro Race Series adds electric class.. :
SEER Racing is announcing a NEW e-Moto class in their hard enduro series!

https://seer-racing.com/2022/09/21/seer-going-electric/