Throttle response changed after increasing battery voltage

[TommyCat]

That sounds much better.

The anticipation is building!

 

[Zambam]

That sounds much better.

The anticipation is building!

Took advantage of a window of no rain, got back from an 8 mile ride with no throttle problems. At 20% throttle engagement setting with the pot, launch from a stop is much smoother than the previous default setting of 30%.

 

[Zambam]

Went out for another ride, around 6 miles. No issues. Hope it holds.

 

[Zambam]

I was hoping installing the pot and adjusting the throttle to engage the throttle earlier (now at 10%) would fix the issue but it didn't. It still happens, more often with a fully charged battery. The throttle behavior also changed with the pot installed. It now happens from a dead stop. No power twisting throttle (brake LED not lit). Have to back the throttle to its stop and twist throttle again to get power.

 

[TommyCat]

It now happens from a dead stop.

As opposed to not being able to reapply throttle after slowing down and still moving only?

Sounds like you have the throttle dialed in nicely. When it's working, is it working well. I.E. Full range on the throttle twist, with nice gradual power up and down with minimal deadbands?

Can you describe in more detail the reset procedure? Your throttle automatically returns to home by spring return. And when you power up nothing happens. But when you purposely return the throttle to home position. Do you have to put a little back pressure after reaching the home position. Does this make anything on or near the throttle move or twist? When you had your voltmeter hooked up and taking readings, did it change during this resetting procedure? Did you try this test?

Only other recommendations for the throttle would be to verify the supply signal voltage AT the controller's main connector during troubleshooting...

I think you have eliminated the "brake sticking on" possibility.

Which leaves the controller locking out on high voltage.

Have you verified that the controller's error LED actually functions? Have a blink or on steady during power up? Will it set a code when you unplug the motor, or something similar that you know sets a code and is easy to do...
I see you have malfunction indicator lights on your bikes front panel, but no mention of them working...?

So, with the new supply voltage quite a bit higher than the original battery. And with-out the ability to check and see the programmed high voltage cut-out setpoint in the controller. And also, with its ability to regenerate. Some recommendations come to mind...


Consider setting your smart BMS Battery Over voltage protection setpoint to just above your full charge voltage.
Then after charging fully and starting out on a test ride. Head down a hill and apply the brakes looking to see if this trips the BMS protection. Shutting power off to the whole system.
If it trips, you may want to disconnect the brake switches, to eliminate the regeneration function. (CAUTION... As well as the ability to cut the motor if stuck on.) And check operation in this mode.

Or if your smart BMS gives you real time battery voltages, just try monitoring it to see if the battery voltage is increasing at all during braking.

Or good ol voltmeter for that matter...

 

[fechter]

Does your bike have regen? Is it possible the battery voltage is spiking up during braking?

 

[Zambam]

Does your bike have regen? Is it possible the battery voltage is spiking up during braking?

No regen. Battery voltage not spiking up during braking per bluetooth bms app.

 

[Zambam]

As opposed to not being able to reapply throttle after slowing down and still moving only?

Correct!

Sounds like you have the throttle dialed in nicely. When it's working, is it working well. I.E. Full range on the throttle twist, with nice gradual power up and down with minimal deadbands?

I have it set to engage motor at 10%. I may increase it a little (to 15%) since it is a bit sensitive at 10%. I am getting full range on throttle twist with gradual power up down.

Can you describe in more detail the reset procedure? Your throttle automatically returns to home by spring return. And when you power up nothing happens. But when you purposely return the throttle to home position. Do you have to put a little back pressure after reaching the home position. Does this make anything on or near the throttle move or twist? When you had your voltmeter hooked up and taking readings, did it change during this resetting procedure? Did you try this test?

Your description of throttle behavior is correct (when it occurs, which is about 3 % of the time). It does not matter if I let spring return to home or add back pressure by hand to reset to get power. Either one gets the bike to move again.

Have you verified that the controller's error LED actually functions? Have a blink or on steady during power up? Will it set a code when you unplug the motor, or something similar that you know sets a code and is easy to do...
I see you have malfunction indicator lights on your bikes front panel, but no mention of them working...?

No I have not. On the controller with the dead speedo which I had opened, I recall checking the error LED with an ohmmeter and got good readings, also measured the current limiting resistor in series with the LED.

I only found out a few days ago about the 6 Indicators (see attached photo) on the display from one of the managers at the dealer (who speaks english) after I asked him about my throttle issues. The 6 indicators flash on for 1/2 second during key on and I never noticed them. The lower left group of 3 (one with exclamation mark) is the brake indicator. When either brake lever is engaged, that brake indicator illuminates, with a delay of approx 1/4 sec corresponding to brake lever engagement and release. He said the delay is not normal and suggest that I replace both brake levers at $60 each. I'm not sure if I believe him. I think the delay is due to it being driven by the controller. I will try to look at other Fly 7's and see if the brake indicator behaves the same or different than mine. I just learned that NYC DMV has told Fly Ebike to stop selling Fly 7's and other variants of E motorcycles because they do not meet DOT standards. All Fly 7's and other E motorcycles has been removed from the showroom floor and their website. I will have to find a delivery worker with a Fly 7 to look at their display. I also need to find out what the other 5 indicators are and indicate.

I finally got my warranty replacement Gopro after about 2 months of filing a claim. Will make a custom mount for it aimed at the display to collect more data.

 

[TommyCat]

Thank you for the clarifications.

Until you have some indication of what error is occurring or worsening of the symptom...

As it causes the problem at full charge or very close to it, have you been able to put a figure at what higher voltage it works perfectly?
If so, a possible work-around with that smart BMS would be to set the high voltage charge setpoint at that good working level.
Adjusting the balancing setpoint(s) to keep a perfectly balanced battery at a bit lower fully charged battery at a reduced voltage.
May reduce capacity slightly and a bit of get up and go at fully charged but may be worth it with dependable operation.

My guesses at the indicators would be.

M = Motor problem.
Throttle = Throttle problem.
ECU = controller problem.
(!) = Brake applied.
Dial = Cruise set.
P = errrr Park?
and light indicator...

 

[Zambam]

After getting my warranty replacement Gopro, I made a mount for it with a bent Mulberry branch, hose clamped to the stems of the rear view mirrors so I can get good videos. I was able to capture a video of a no throttle occurrence, but there was no error LED's.

I can say that the throttle issue happens most often from full charge to about 50% SOC. But I have also seen it happen at less than 50% SOC.

Yesterday, after not riding the scooter for a few days, something new happened. With battery @ 60% SOC, I turned on the key and gave it throttle to take off but it didn't move. Cycled the key a few times, same thing. I then noticed the throttle error light was on and snapped a pic with my phone (see reflection in pic, Gopro was on my helmet). I cycled the breaker under the seat once, throttle error light went away and I was able ride off.

Same thing happened today except I had to recycle the breaker 3 times before the throttle error light went away. On my return trip I did not get the throttle light and decided to adjust the throttle pot back to engaging at around 30% (where it was before installing the pot). Will see if adjusting pot helps with this new throttle issue.

 

[Zambam]

I have not used the scooter/moped much in the past few weeks (been mostly riding my mid drive TSDZ2, testing waxed chains). It seems with the added pot, when powered up from sitting overnight, I have to recycle the circuit breaker multiple times to get rid of the throttle error.

Yesterday, with bike on center stand, I cut the pot out of the circuit. Turned key on, expecting full throttle but not so, wheel did not spin at all!

Spliced the interrupted ground wire (back to factory config) and it powered up normally. Will see what happens with the throttle error.

 

[TommyCat]

Still keeping track...

When the error light on the display was on, did the controller also give the controller's LED a flashing code?

With the battery disconnected, and the throttle disconnected up close to it as possible in order to get good resistance readings.
What are the resistance values from the throttle ground harness connection to battery negative?
And from the throttle signal harness connection to battery negative? For comparison, my controller has a signal resistance of 13.31 K ohms.

In your travels, did the deadband between throttle's Home position and motor start up ever vary with nothing being changed?

Yesterday, with bike on center stand, I cut the pot out of the circuit. Turned key on, expecting full throttle but not so, wheel did not spin at all!

Probably the controller's throttle over voltage safety working... may or may not set the throttle error indicator.

 

[Zambam]

Since restoring the throttle to factory config, the throttle error light on the display has not returned.

When the error light on the display was on, did the controller also give the controller's LED a flashing code?

Sorry, it did not occur to me to look at the controller LED (which has never lit every time I looked for it).

With the battery disconnected, and the throttle disconnected up close to it as possible in order to get good resistance readings.
What are the resistance values from the throttle ground harness connection to battery negative?
And from the throttle signal harness connection to battery negative? For comparison, my controller has a signal resistance of 13.31 K ohms.

I can take those readings (it's still easy enough to do).

In your travels, did the deadband between throttle's Home position and motor start up ever vary with nothing being changed?

If nothing is being changed, the throttle deadband seems to stay the same and not vary.

I am getting to the point where I feel there's no solution for this throttle issue using the same controller. I can live with it if it does not get worse.

I have heard of Far Driver controllers (which can handle 72V) being used in Fly 7's for higher speed/ power (it'll do wheelies). I don't know how plug and play it is or if it's PITA to get working.

 

[TommyCat]

Since restoring the throttle to factory config, the throttle error light on the display has not returned.

If this also means operation is good, I'd walk away carefully and slowly and leave everything as it is.
No need for resistance checks now if all is well.

I just get a feeling that there is an intermittent wire connection or bad wire in the throttle wiring. Between the throttle's hall sensor
legs and the controller's PCB board.
As such I'd probably go with a last-ditch effort in that direction before chucking the controller... but that's me.

Did you take a REALLY good look at the pins and holes of the controller's connectors?

 

[fechter]

I've seen bad solder joints on the controller board where the wires attach before. May be worth looking inside.

 

[Zambam]

If this also means operation is good, I'd walk away carefully and slowly and leave everything as it is.
No need for resistance checks now if all is well.

There were 2 separate throttle issues.

The first was no power at a stop with throttle twist (have to back off throttle to rest position and twist again to get power).

The second issue (which started about 3 weeks ago), was after sitting overnight or longer, then turn power on, motor won't spin no matter what I do with throttle (throttle symbol on display is lit). Have to recycle circuit breaker multiple times (over about 2 minutes) to get rid of the throttle symbol, after which everything works as normal. Throughout the day, this does not happen again. It will happen again the next morning w/o fail when I need to use the moped.

It's the second issue which has not occurred since returning the throttle to factory config. The first issue, while it hasn't happened yet since restoring throttle to factory config, may very well happen again. Only time will tell.

I just get a feeling that there is an intermittent wire connection or bad wire in the throttle wiring. Between the throttle's hall sensor
legs and the controller's PCB board.

I've ran continuity checks on all pertinent wires and connector pins (pristine with no damage). Bike never seen rain = no corrosion. I've tried another controller and another throttle, neither helped. I think the 60V controller just do not like being run at 72V and doing the strange things I've been seeing.

 

[Zambam]

I've seen bad solder joints on the controller board where the wires attach before. May be worth looking inside.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've had the controller opened multiple times to inspect it. All solder joints and wire terminations looked fine.

 

[TommyCat]

I've tried another controller

This is why I suspect wiring or a connector in the cable throttle wiring.

 

[Zambam]

This is why I suspect wiring or a connector in the cable throttle wiring.

I have also checked the pertinent wiring and connectors. I don't think there is anything that can be done to fix it other than a new controller that can handle the higher voltage that it's operating on. Thanks for all the help you've provided TC.

 

[TommyCat]

Glad to help, sorry we couldn't get it resolved.
Check in and let us know what you come up with.

Best regards,
T.C.