TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[mctubster]

OK so at what cadence or RPM does the 36 Volt torque pass the 48V torque?
If possible I would love to see the 2 torque curves on the same graph showing at what RPM the 36V torque overcomes or passes the 48V torque and at what percentage they are more or less than each other.
I think knowing exactly what this is will help everyone decide whether they want a 48 Volt or 36 Volt motor?

Based on Buba's calculated torque constant, and using the rated no load speed (4000RPM) and overvolting the 36V motor by 1.33x (48V) I came up with this. The hatched area is higher torque from the 36V motor above 52 pedal RPM's

EDITED -- OK I fixed the drawing, and moved the line for the 36V motor up, making the crossover point lower

 

[Elinx]

......

Primarily to keep the battery output voltage constant. I get back to AU in Jan, so will try this with the TSDZ2.

The great thing about these voltage boosters, is only the portion of the boosted voltage has losses attached to it, so they are pretty efficient (say 95%) or more. ....

How can you check your battery capacity in that case?

 

[mctubster]

......

Primarily to keep the battery output voltage constant. I get back to AU in Jan, so will try this with the TSDZ2.

The great thing about these voltage boosters, is only the portion of the boosted voltage has losses attached to it, so they are pretty efficient (say 95%) or more. ....

How can you check your battery capacity in that case?

Setup the TSDZ2 with SOC tracking enabled, set it higher than your battery capacity. Set a low voltage cutout on the voltage booster that is safe for your cell chemistry, and basically run the battery until cutout, then take a few percentage off the SOC at cutout (ie Wh consumed) and set it in the TSDZ2.

Another option is to use a Coulomb counter between the battery and boost converter (like this) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32702066121.html

 

[famichiki]

I'm using a VLCD5 version of this firmware but having problems with the motor keeping running a long time after stopping pedalling. Sometimes even continually and needing to kill the power.

Does this main version have any issues like that? Did it ever? I'm wondering if I should just buy a better display and use the main firmware instead.

If the main firmware did ever have that problem, what was the cause? If someone could point me to where the problem could be, maybe I can fix it myself.

 

[spoungeBOB11]

Hi guys, i recently tried to update my tsdz2 750 to OSF. The 0.20 firmware transferred with success, but now i'm getting an empty battery signal (battery is full) on my xh-18 which is stock firmware. Motor assist isn't working.
I also tried to install the temperature sensor and thermal dissipation mods while the motor was open.

Any clues on what might have happened wrong ?

 

[mctubster]

Hi guys, i recently tried to update my tsdz2 750 to OSF. The 0.20 firmware transferred with success, but now i'm getting an empty battery signal (battery is full) on my xh-18 which is stock firmware. Motor assist isn't working.
I also tried to install the temperature sensor and thermal dissipation mods while the motor was open.

Any clues on what might have happened wrong ?

You have to use this fork https://github.com/stancecoke/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-compatible-with-original-VlCD6-display/wiki with the original displays (unsure if it works with xh-18)

 

[spoungeBOB11]

Yes but are you sure it is the cause of the issue ?

 

[spoungeBOB11]

OK i've reprogrammed the motor to stock firmware and it seems to gave solved the issue

 

[gomyles]

Hi everyone,

I'd appreciate anyone's input that may be able to help me out with this.

I really want to keep a throttle and use the Open Source Firmware.

I think what I am looking forward to the most are the Field Weakening (higher speeds) and the higher cadence. I'd like to be able to get the bike going to 35km / hour (or faster) without risking overheating the motor ...

I understand that if using the throttle, I can not use the temperature sensor. What would be the safe current level to run the motor at without the temperature sensor? Maybe 10 Amps? (52V Battery = roughly 500W)

Is this functionality obtainable with the VLCD5? Or is still mostly only reliable on the KTLCD3 / Bafang 850C display?

Thank you very much for any help!

 

[jeff.page.rides]

OK so at what cadence or RPM does the 36 Volt torque pass the 48V torque?
If possible I would love to see the 2 torque curves on the same graph showing at what RPM the 36V torque overcomes or passes the 48V torque and at what percentage they are more or less than each other.
I think knowing exactly what this is will help everyone decide whether they want a 48 Volt or 36 Volt motor?

Based on Buba's calculated torque constant, and using the rated no load speed (4000RPM) and overvolting the 36V motor by 1.33x (48V) I came up with this. The hatched area is higher torque from the 36V motor above 52 pedal RPM's

EDITED -- OK I fixed the drawing, and moved the line for the 36V motor up, making the crossover point lower

Screenshot_2019-11-26_10_07_23.gif

Thanks, I really appreciate the drawing it helps a lot. I'm going to watch my cadence more carefully for a while and see how things fill below 52 RPM, 90% of the time I am between 60 and 80 or RPM

 

[mctubster]

Thanks, I really appreciate the drawing it helps a lot. I'm going to watch my cadence more carefully for a while and see how things fill below 52 RPM, 90% of the time I am between 60 and 80 or RPM

Sure NP.

Couple of points. The calculated 52RPM is based on empirical measurements and a number of calculations. Would appreciate Buba or someone else eyeballing the graph to make sure I haven't made any mistakes

Even below 52 pedal RPM the overvolted 36V motor still produces a fair amount of torque. Enough that without a smooth current ramp it can strip the blue gear. You could de-rate the torque on your 48V motor by reducing the max current by say 25% and that would give you a feel for the max torque of the 36V motor.

 

[casainho]

Here are the new developments I am being done for 850C, the customized numeric fields and also the graphs, with yellow and red colors so users can understand when motor power is near or is being limited. For instance the cadence, we know that the limit is a bit over 90 RPMs -- user can customize each variable limits as also the max and min of he graph:

 

[mctubster]

Here are the new developments I am being done for 850C, the customized numeric fields and also the graphs, with yellow and red colors so users can understand when motor power is near or is being limited. For instance the cadence, we know that the limit is a bit over 90 RPMs -- user can customize each variable limits as also the max and min of he graph:

Looks fantastic. Can't wait to try! (patiently waiting for .20 compatibility)

 

[twiersum]

Mctubster

Did the converter work well? I had tried something similar but it didnt work. I would love to find a converter that could work in the 3.0-4.2v range so we can just run batteries in parrallel which is much simpler and less prone to failure. Plus you could have any size pack you want based on space.

I also notice the power fade a lot whrn my battery gets low and I have to run boost because lvl 1 & 2 are too weak.

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Hi everyone,

I'd appreciate anyone's input that may be able to help me out with this.

I really want to keep a throttle and use the Open Source Firmware.

I think what I am looking forward to the most are the Field Weakening (higher speeds) and the higher cadence. I'd like to be able to get the bike going to 35km / hour (or faster) without risking overheating the motor ...

I understand that if using the throttle, I can not use the temperature sensor. What would be the safe current level to run the motor at without the temperature sensor? Maybe 10 Amps? (52V Battery = roughly 500W)

Is this functionality obtainable with the VLCD5? Or is still mostly only reliable on the KTLCD3 / Bafang 850C display?

Thank you very much for any help!

Continuous or peak? I’ve been using mine in the 48V high-cadence mode with current ramp-up set as high as the max 10.0 (currently at 8.8 ) and full 18A with a 52V battery. I haven’t had any problems and I use the throttle a lot, although I usually pedal along and try not to set too high a gear.

The only caveat is that I bought the motor from Electrifybike with the TOS firmware pre-installed and they might have shipped with it with the metal gear. I can’t see anything about the gear one way or the other on their site and I’m not going to crack the motor open just to find out.

In any case, 588 watts (10A from a fully charged 52V battery) should not strip the gears unless you’re running it in a high gear or under heavy load for prolonged periods.

 

[Snoopz]

Odometer and trip meter reading zero with 850C_v0.5.0-beta.6. MPH now appears correct but both the SI and Imperial settings show MPH now. Just the opposite of the bug in the previous release. Also, in the smaller fields on the main screen (motor power, human power, speed, etc) the speed always reads Km regardless of whether Imperial or SI set.

Same here, get no readings from both. Also, I don't quite understand where you guys find all those settings, like emtb mode, cadence and so on. Does it only work on the sw display? Can't find those options on the 850C. Was driving around for two days now, and the motor suddenly started to act up. It does not give support, it even slows me down with resistance. Strangely enough, the throttle works, gives me power according to the voltage that I got (down to 49,8V on my 52V battery).
Walk assist doesn't seem to work either, no matter what I do. It shows "walk" but I nothing happens.

Anyone mind elaborate on this? 48V motor, 17Ah battery, 52V, bafang 850c and that's about it. Was working flawlessly for two days, then started acting up. Also, the crank began coming loose, was feeling a wobbling and crank started to come loose

 

[casainho]

Odometer and trip meter reading zero with 850C_v0.5.0-beta.6. MPH now appears correct but both the SI and Imperial settings show MPH now. Just the opposite of the bug in the previous release. Also, in the smaller fields on the main screen (motor power, human power, speed, etc) the speed always reads Km regardless of whether Imperial or SI set.

Same here, get no readings from both. Also, I don't quite understand where you guys find all those settings, like emtb mode, cadence and so on. Does it only work on the sw display? Can't find those options on the 850C. Was driving around for two days now, and the motor suddenly started to act up. It does not give support, it even slows me down with resistance. Strangely enough, the throttle works, gives me power according to the voltage that I got (down to 49,8V on my 52V battery).
Walk assist doesn't seem to work either, no matter what I do. It shows "walk" but I nothing happens.

Anyone mind elaborate on this? 48V motor, 17Ah battery, 52V, bafang 850c and that's about it. Was working flawlessly for two days, then started acting up. Also, the crank began coming loose, was feeling a wobbling and crank started to come loose

Don't worry, the firmware for 850C has only one mode and it just works, no need to understand other modes.

So, about the issue you seem to have, when you use walk assist, please see if there is motor power. Make sure you do not keep pressing walk assist, having motor power but the motor does not rotate.
If there is no power and the motor does not rotate, at least look at the PWM value and see if it increases, for me, a value of PWM 70 on walk assist, makes the motor rotation well for walk assist function.

If throttle works but not the assist when you pedal, and if your crank is loose, maybe your torque sensor is not working well anymore. You need to look at the torque sensor value and see if when you pedal, the PWM value increases... Put that variables in the graph as also on the numeric fields to help you track them...

Yes, there are some issues with 850C firmware but I am working on them on last days, I want to finish some parts to make a new release, with that things about imperial units solved.

 

[famichiki]

It seems that the internal resistance of one cell is 40mOhm, as you have 13 in series, this gives a total resistance of 520mOhm.

5 in parallel, 13 in serie : 105 mOhms

Is it not the sum of the inverse parallel cells so 40 mohm per cell would be for a 4p pack 10mohm and if 13s, total 130mohm?

Oh sorry guys, it's 104 mOhms for 13S5P (8mOhm for 5P multiply by 13).

I have measured 1.6V drop under load when current is limited to 12A, does this mean my battery pack's internal resistance is 133 milliohms? I'm going by the tutorial MS Word doc that says R = volts drop / amps, so R = 1.6 / 12 ?

Also, the Samsung 35E cells have a listed spec of 35 milliohms. Going by the above (R = (cell resistance / parallel cells) * series cells) is 98 milliohms the theoretical resistance for just the cells in a 14S5P pack? R = (35 / 5) * 14 ?

 

[gomyles]

Hi everyone,

I'd appreciate anyone's input that may be able to help me out with this.

I really want to keep a throttle and use the Open Source Firmware.

I think what I am looking forward to the most are the Field Weakening (higher speeds) and the higher cadence. I'd like to be able to get the bike going to 35km / hour (or faster) without risking overheating the motor ...

I understand that if using the throttle, I can not use the temperature sensor. What would be the safe current level to run the motor at without the temperature sensor? Maybe 10 Amps? (52V Battery = roughly 500W)

Is this functionality obtainable with the VLCD5? Or is still mostly only reliable on the KTLCD3 / Bafang 850C display?

Thank you very much for any help!

Continuous or peak? I’ve been using mine in the 48V high-cadence mode with current ramp-up set as high as the max 10.0 (currently at 8.8 ) and full 18A with a 52V battery. I haven’t had any problems and I use the throttle a lot, although I usually pedal along and try not to set too high a gear.

The only caveat is that I bought the motor from Electrifybike with the TOS firmware pre-installed and they might have shipped with it with the metal gear. I can’t see anything about the gear one way or the other on their site and I’m not going to crack the motor open just to find out.

In any case, 588 watts (10A from a fully charged 52V battery) should not strip the gears unless you’re running it in a high gear or under heavy load for prolonged periods.

Thank you very much for the responise Arthurtuxdeo.

I'm thinking 10A continuous, so do you have yours set at 10A continuous and 18A peak ?

I guess I'm not too familiar with how the control system works. If you're doing up a medium grade hill, and you hold the throttle on, will the controller deliver 18A (the peak current) or will it deliver 18 for a couple of seconds and drop down to 10A (or the continuous current) ?

I'm going to look into the electrifybike setup that has the firmware pre-installed, although I'm curious about the price difference.

Thanks again!

 

[AZUR]

 

[AZUR]

Hi

This is my new bike with TSDZ2 and Opensource SW and 850C Display

My thanks to Casainho that makes it possible.

Is a Giant Trance Ltd 2014, 140mm Front and Rear.

92 mm 48V TSDZ2 motor.

I bought a 100mm motor from Aliexpress Ebird Store and 92 mm axle from Future-bike.it

42 tooth offset front Chainring from Future-bike.it

Custom 11 speed cassette with 9 Cogs and 11 speed Shifter.

9 Cogs, only, to improve chainline

50,42,36,30,24,20,16,13,11

The modified cassette is Sunrace CSMX80 11 – speed 11-50.

To make some test I am using now 13 S 21700 battery Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh – 10A.

Nest test will be 15s.

Regards

 

[AZUR]

Hi,

I´m using last TSDZ2 and 850C display compatible versions.

I tried firmware yesterday, for the first time, and it´s awesome.

Thanks Casainho.

I have 2 issues.

First is that I don’t get any value in the trip distance field.

Second issue, I can only enter in the configuration menu and modify the fields.

On main screen I can´t modify the fields.

Because the test I am going to do with 15S battery, and because I don´t have yet the BMS installed I would like to see Voltage and Current on the main screen.

Casainho, am I doing something wrong ?

How can I modify the fields in the main screen?

Best Regards

 

[AZUR]

Hi

This is my new bike with TSDZ2 and Opensource SW and 850C Display

My thanks to Casainho that makes it possible.

Is a Giant Trance Ltd 2014, 140mm Front and Rear.

92 mm 48V TSDZ2 motor.

I bought a 100mm motor from Aliexpress Ebird Store and 92 mm axle from Future-bike.it

42 tooth offset front Chainring from Future-bike.it

Custom 11 speed cassette with 9 Cogs and 11 speed Shifter.

9 Cogs, only, to improve chainline

50,42,36,30,24,20,16,13,11

The modified cassette is Sunrace CSMX80 11 – speed 11-50.

To make some test I am using now 13 S 21700 battery Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh – 10A.

Nest test will be 15s.

Regards




20191115_183216_size8.jpg

I am using SRAM Chain and 12 speed derailleur.

 

[Snoopz]

Hi,

I´m using last TSDZ2 and 850C display compatible versions.

I tried firmware yesterday, for the first time, and it´s awesome.

Thanks Casainho.

I have 2 issues.

First is that I don’t get any value in the trip distance field.

Second issue, I can only enter in the configuration menu and modify the fields.

On main screen I can´t modify the fields.

Because the test I am going to do with 15S battery, and because I don´t have yet the BMS installed I would like to see Voltage and Current on the main screen.

Casainho, am I doing something wrong ?

How can I modify the fields in the main screen?

Best Regards

20191129_142737_size A.jpg

Voltage shows if you disable battery soc. It then replaces the percentage on the left corner of the display.

As for the fields, I have the same problem. Tripmeter doesn't show and I have two indications of my speed (big main number, and another on the bottom right). Kinda just need the one in the middle.

Let's see what the answer is. Changed to a 52T chain ring and getting speeds right under 55 km/h, it's insane

I'll test the walkassist tomorrow, and I replaced the crank.

Ride on folks

 

[arthurtuxedo]

Thank you very much for the responise Arthurtuxdeo.

I'm thinking 10A continuous, so do you have yours set at 10A continuous and 18A peak ?

You don’t set continuous, only peak. Mine is set to 18A.

I guess I'm not too familiar with how the control system works. If you're doing up a medium grade hill, and you hold the throttle on, will the controller deliver 18A (the peak current) or will it deliver 18 for a couple of seconds and drop down to 10A (or the continuous current) ?

I'm going to look into the electrifybike setup that has the firmware pre-installed, although I'm curious about the price difference.

Thanks again!

It depends on what gear and assist level you are in. If I hold down the throttle in first gear on a 7 or 8% hill, it will max out the cadence at about 6.5 MPH and consume about 350-400 Watts, which is roughly 8 amps. If I set the assist level to 3 and don’t use the throttle, I might only go 5 MPH and 200-250 Watts, or about 5 amps. Either of those would be considered a “continuous” rating. If I set it to 3rd gear on the same hill and hit the throttle, the bike will go ~11 MPH and will peak at the limit of 950 Watts before falling to the continuous output of about 700 to maintain 11 MPH. If I tried to use an even higher gear under full throttle, it would stay at 900-950 Watts and put tremendous strain on the motor and my gear hub, so I would never do that.