New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Error Brakes or Comms

I had my TSDZ2 for about a year with no issues. I moved everything to a new bike and this error came up. So far I've tried a different display (both 860C), a different speed sensor and replaced the controller. I tried a couple different versions of firmware on the original display too. I always ran it without the throttle and brakes connected, so I tried plugging them in. Both work, but the motor runs slowly without any input if the throttle is connected which didn't happen when I first had it. Same error message no matter what I try. Anyone have any ideas? The torque sensor looked OK when I had everything apart but it's the only thing I haven't changed yet.
 
I wanted to show a simple mechanism. That was the idea.

There is also another way of looking at things when you are a manufacturer. There is a concept of the percentage of returns for any product. I estimate that the return percentage for the BB spindle fracture is not even 2%. And the majority of these fractures are due to improper use.

The manufacturer wanted to use the torque sensor system that we know. But to use this torque sensor concept, it was necessary to make a compromise by reducing the diameter of the BB spindle.

My wife and I have traveled more than 40,000 km in four years without replacing the BB spindle on our two motors.

This product is available at a good price. This responds to many people who do not have the leisure to invest more and want a system with a torque sensor.

And finally, I find your “respectable country” comment inappropriate and unfounded.

The issue, according to my limited and maybe false assumptions based on reading through pages and pages of discussions, is actually more end user one.

Tsdz2(b) is actually not marketed towards emtb conversions but

Bike RecommendationE-CITY / E-TOUR

On a city / touring bike, you're riding seated almost all the time. Thus, the spindle doesn't need to bear your full weight + additional impact forces from rough terrain ( let alone big jumps and drops ).

Most complaints I've read where from people using it in their emtb conversions. Heck, I'm using an mtb frame ( and have ridden most of the trails around here already with it ). But I won't complain if I break a spindle. I did add the extra bearings ( and did the cooling mod ), so the spindle has better support.


Bit confusing they don't list the tsdz8 which was supposed to be the 'next big thing'. Of the listed entries, only tsdz10 is marketed towards embt conversions.

I've ridden about 1800km now with mine, and the only thing I had to do ( after the initial bearings and cooling mod ) to my whole bike was replace the chain.. which I didn't do when installing the motor so can't really judge my chain wear just yet.

40k in four years, that's a lot of outside air you've been getting :) I hope mine lasts as long, but I am fine with it if it doesn't as I'm aware I'm not ( always ) using it for it's intended use case.

Will probably help a lot though I weigh no where near what the average Murican weighs, you can fit three of me in there.
 
TSDZ2 Intermittent Thumb Throttle
I have installed a TSDZ2 in one bike and an early version of the TSDZ2B in another, with approx 18 and 12 months use respectively.
Recently the B has been giving poor throttle response. I checked the external cabling, changed the throttle for another one, to no avail, then seemed to have cured it after I opened it up and gave the cables a gentle poking around with a safe stick and tywrapping a pair of four pin connectors together which I guessed might have worked loose. At some point I gave it a safe blow with a hammer on the casing which might have cured it.
Anyway, after a week or so, the problem has returned. My daily journey consists of 500m of very narrow winding footpath with ups and downs where I depend on the thumb throttle working, and 10km road where I do not use the throttle at all. On one very steep section of the path I use the throttle on max plus standing while pedalling, weight forward on the pedals, and I noticed that when the throttle is in failed mode, it reduces the pedals input contribution, and I don't get full welly on the pedals till I back off on the throttle, whereas when the throttle is ok, the two happily add together.
I have not changed the firmware. I have worked with electronics all my life and I know how annoying intermittent faults can be.
Has anybody out there got a schematic for these, or any suggestions to make? I could swap the VLCD5 units over, but I'm inclined to think it's an intermittent open-cicuit connection in the pcbs/wiring inside the motor (hammer). At the moment, it pedals fine, normal functionality on the VLCD5 buttons and external button unit, just the throttle response is next to zero so I'm pushing it along the track, laden with my shopping.
 
I've got intermittent power on a TSDZ2 - it'll go on and off during the ride. Anything obvious to look for?
The display stays on and doesn't show any signs power has been disturbed.
Background...
I Just assembled a TSDZ2 using the controller from one with a slipping crank* into an otherwise nearly new motor with a blown controller. Original not the TSDZ2B.
I'm using 36v batteries that work fine in another bike, just fully charged.
I will double check everything is done up well, but pretty sure it was.

At the moment got a basic display, I do have a colour display to be flashed, but I was hoping to get this sorted ASAP, as it's for my mum to use; she had her previous bike stolen and it's her Birthday.

*!? not the sprag clutch, but that's for another day
 
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Hi All, i hope this is the right place to ask, i’ve searched but cannot find out what 5 pin connector type is used between the motor and controller, mine is melted and would like to replace

thanks in advance
 
Hi all, this onlineshop has 4 different versions of the TSDZ2B.

1. 48V 500W
2. 48V 350W
3. 36V 350W
4. 36V 250W

I wonder, if the actual motor in all those is the same? Is this just different controllers/settings? I intend to use it with the OS Firmware, therefore I don't care about firmware settings, but if there are different motor versions, I would be curious about the differences.

Does anyone know?

EDIT: so, it seems there is different winding in the 36V vs. 48V, but does that effect weight or size significantly? I am asking because I would buy the 48V version unless it is heavier or bigger? Price is the same for all of those.
 
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Hi all, this onlineshop has 4 different versions of the TSDZ2B.

1. 48V 500W
2. 48V 350W
3. 36V 350W
4. 36V 250W

I wonder, if the actual motor in all those is the same? Is this just different controllers/settings? I intend to use it with the OS Firmware, therefore I don't care about firmware settings, but if there are different motor versions, I would be curious about the differences.

Does anyone know?

EDIT: so, it seems there is different winding in the 36V vs. 48V, but does that effect weight or size significantly? I am asking because I would buy the 48V version unless it is heavier or bigger? Price is the same for all of those.
The 36 vs 48V motors are in dimension and weight identical. (The internal motors are interchangable, i.e. with a spare part 36V motor you can convert a 48V to a 36V Version - esp. with the open source firmware, (
 
...

I wonder, if the actual motor in all those is the same?...
There are only two different versions of the bare motor..... 36V 4000rpm and 48V 4000rpm
The controllers are the same, only the stock firmware is different. So that explains partly the different power settings.
With OSF you can program the controller for both versions.
 
Does an electronic schematic exist for the TSDZ2 or TSDZ2B? I'm still trying to fix my thumb-throttle intermittent problem.
 
My thoughts about pedal human power and stamina, for Bafang motors or TSDZ2:

I also do some light trail runs and I use a Garmin watch that has a metric called "stamina" that represents my energy. As I am tall, fat and not fit, I have low stamina and so I need to manage very well my energy so I can go to the end of the trails of 15kms.
For example today, I was able to run the 15 kms and never stop to walk because I was tired, so I did manage well my energy and in the end, my Garmin watch stamina said I had energy for only more 3kms - quite accurate for the way I was felling tired:



The Garmin watches or cycling GPS computers as Edge, can also calculate stamina for cycling activities but for that it needs the real time input of pedal human power. My plan is to calculate the pedal human power from Bafang M500/M600 / TSDZ2 torque sensor, using our EasyDIY display, and send wireless by ANT to the watch or GPS computer, so the user will be able to see later the graph of pedal human power as also got the real time stamina while cycling.

Here the example of my running power (around average 250W) and stamina graphs on the 15 kms trail run:

Hi, have you managed to achieve this. I'm running your firmware on my TSDZ2 with your DIY display. Lately I've bought Garmin Epix 2 Pro and I want to be able to send human power and cadence to my watch. How can I achieve this?
 
I'm trying to mount an 860c display and selector switch.

The selector switch clamp is too small even for the smallest part of my handlebars.

Has anybody cracked this problem?

TIA.
 
Hello everyone!

trying to buy Magura MT5e brakes for TSDZ2.

They offer two options:
MT5e HIGO-Opener 2-Finger Disc Brake
and
Magura
MT5e HIGO-Closer 2-Finger Disc Brake

which one should I buy so it works with TSDZ2 without needing any modifications?
 
Literally thousands of different BB spindles exist out there, their sizes settled on by everything from trial and error to finite element stress analysis to rote imitation. But TSDZ2 has the smallest diameter I've ever seen-- even on a child's bike-- by a whole millimeter. And then they cut a groove right where the stress is highest. It's not a small mistake. It's a small component used where everybody else in the world, for generations, agrees you need a bigger one. And where for generations we've known it should not be grooved. That's textbook negligence. If the manufacturer were from a respectable country, they would already have been sued out of existence.

The snap ring grooved Viscount BB spindle of the 1970s was a chronic problem, and it was over 13% bigger in diameter than the one we're discussing.


Hi Chalo,

I thought I'd chime in regarding the shaft / snap-ring groove issue because I'm an engineer. Simply, your analysis either makes some assumptions or is incomplete, however you are PROBABLY correct. Here's what an engineer without full information would say:

The shaft diameter could well be adequate and even have an additional margin if, and this is an important if, it is made of an appropriate material that is processed in the right ways. It's not ONLY metallurgy but also whether cast, forged, extruded, rolled, etc. In this instance, rolled could be an effective choice but the starting materials need to be fairly free of any debris ("impurities"). Forging would, by far, be the best choice here. And if you're silly enough to insist on a stupid snap ring groove, forge the damned thing in with plenty of radius! It could work fine with no breaks.

I am well informed about rotational power transmission for early Porsche and VWs. In short, the original requirement for the input shaft (set in 1947) that takes power from the engine and transmits it to the transmission was for 20 PS BHP (25 SAE) with a maximum RPM of about 4200 or thereabouts. Power kept being increased and the original design was inadequate so the materials and manufacturing processes were continually improved leading up to a full order of magnitude increase in power still being handled by the same fundamental diameter.

The early ones did not but later units did have a snap ring groove used to retain the inner race for a replaceable roller bearing, and the inside diameter of that snap ring is ~23 mm and easily handles around 150 bhp with plenty (but unknown to me) margin to spare.

All that said, it's a fairly safe bet Tongsheng isn't spending more than the minimum they can get away with, and, just eyeballing one, looks to me that there's no care taken to have a good radius on the snap ring groove bottom, but I could be mistaken about that. A key factor in their decision making might very well be complete or at least substantial ignorance about the relative mass differential between "Americans" and their native population. What's adequate but not robust for a typical Chinese citizen is surely inadequate for a typical citizen of the USA.

As for product liability, your remarks are spot on, however I think the complaint was based on the non-specific nature of the comment rather than the targeted criticism of your later explanation. As I got _burned_ into me at a young age, it's often not what you say but how you say it!

...On another topic, I'd love it if Tongsheng got its proverbial -blank- together; the design has a lot of potential and if that torque sensor is an issue then make a bigger one! Duh! But I haven't paid a lot of attention; maybe they're now producing bigger / better units now? However, the firmware issue(s) that I've seen some comments about give me pause.


RTIII
 
It is a needle bearing HK2212
But there is mentioned also the HK2214 or even HK2216
I have a TSDZ2 motor with a broken casing that I will be transferring the parts over to a new casing (arriving from pswpower in a week or so). How does the needle bearing come out? If it has to come out from the chain ring side, the silver colored threaded extension has to come out first, which I think is threaded and epoxied into place. I tried heating it with a heat gun then twist it off with a pipe wrench but it won't budge. I'll see if I can hack saw it off w/o damaging the bearing. Maybe I should just buy a new bearing?

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I was wondering the same -how to get that needle bearing out, esp as there is a circlip ring (right word?) holding it in place, which is next to impossible to remove. In my case I wanted to remove it to replace the bearing with a new one. In your case with the new casing I would definetely buy a new one! They are really cheap and it could also reduce your BB play.
 
I was wondering the same -how to get that needle bearing out, esp as there is a circlip ring (right word?) holding it in place, which is next to impossible to remove. In my case I wanted to remove it to replace the bearing with a new one. In your case with the new casing I would definetely buy a new one! They are really cheap and it could also reduce your BB play.
You need circlip pliers with the correct diameter tips to remove the circlip. I took a hack saw to it. While cutting I said "wow this is some tough die cast aluminum" it was so hard to cut. Turns out it's steel (magnetic). The silver insert piece is aluminum thoug and looks like it's epoxied in with JB steel weld. I probably didn't heat it long enough/ hot enough with the heat gun.

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So I took out my torque sensor in order to do a hardware calibration (I had a delta of 70 only).
Everything seemed to go well during calibration (I went from a no load value of 170 to 80), but when I put the thing back together I keep having E02 torque sensor error.
The torque sensor does communicate with the controller since I get proper ADC values when turning on the lights on the display, but the error stays there.
Any idea of what I could have done wrong ?
 
So I took out my torque sensor in order to do a hardware calibration ....
Any idea of what I could have done wrong ?
Have you entered the new calibration values into the java configurator and flashed the controller again?
 
Have you entered the new calibration values into the java configurator and flashed the controller again?
Whooops no I didn't. I expected the controller to start normally before flashing it... But yeah obviously it's messed up with the new values when doing the startup calibration.. Uh my bad... Thank you Elinx, I'll do that tomorrow !
 
I was wondering the same -how to get that needle bearing out, esp as there is a circlip ring (right word?) holding it in place, which is next to impossible to remove. In my case I wanted to remove it to replace the bearing with a new one. In your case with the new casing I would definetely buy a new one! They are really cheap and it could also reduce your BB play.
After looking more closely, I now realize there are 2 needle bearings. I think you must have been referring to the bearing below this "circlip ring" (pointed to by red line) while I was referring to the other needle bearing stuck inside the casing shaft?

IMG_3167.jpeg
 
After looking more closely, I now realize there are 2 needle bearings. I think you must have been referring to the bearing below this "circlip ring" (pointed to by red line) while I was referring to the other needle bearing stuck inside the casing shaft?

View attachment 346859
No, I was also referring to the one in the shaft. That one as well has a circlip ring (in a groove in that shaft) And that one also has no ‚eyes‘ (similar to the one in your picture) Where the pliers can hold on to. That is at least the setup in my TSDZ2
 
"Blind" circlips can be removed, but need a different tool. A quick google on "removing / installing eyeless circlips" or "removing / installing blind circlips" finds videos and various webpages and forum posts about possible ways to install and remove them, if it's useful, such as :
this image is from that thread
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No, I was also referring to the one in the shaft. That one as well has a circlip ring (in a groove in that shaft) And that one also has no ‚eyes‘ (similar to the one in your picture) Where the pliers can hold on to. That is at least the setup in my TSDZ2
I think all circlips in my TSDZ2 motor has eyes except this one, where the ends look like they're splayed out the wrong way which would tend to slip off the circlip pliers (instead of biting into it). Torque sensor board has to be removed before removing the circlip in order to change that bearing. I am not replacing it since the motor never ran on the street before the casing broke so should be good as new.

IMG_3170.jpeg
 
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