New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[jbalat]

I ordered my battery locally from SamD (thanks Sam), motor was from pswpower. Didnt want to risk buying a battery from overseas just in case it got caught up in customs somewhere.

I got the 350 with the VLCD5 display. In the hidden menu on this display it lets you bump up the Amps. Default is 16Amp. I did bump it up to 20 for a bit but set it back since I don't know what this motor will handle before it burns out. However I'm pretty sure the 250 and 350 motors are identical limited only by this setting. I don't need more power for mountain bike riding anyway. Funny though at 16A it will be using about 580W. Still need to hook up a watt meter to see what the actuals are.

I'm guessing that due to torque sensing most of the ride is under 200w anyway and may peak to 500w when going us a steep hill. Will do this soon to confirm.

As for commuting I'm more than happy to ride it into work on occasion and alternate between the road bike and the direct drive e-bike. So plenty of choices to keep me mobile

 

[RTIII]

Guys the chain ring is a standard 110pcm 5 hole chain ring you can buy from many sources. Sram and Shimano both made cranks to this specification. If you can find a narrow wide ring then you are really in business.

You can even fit two rings side by side by removing the factory chain guard ring, but the outer rings line may well mean you wouldn't be able to use the very low rear sprockets but I don't really see that as a worry.

Thank you so much, Waynemarlow.

Just curious ... I presume you've got a small typo there, you mean 110 BCD - as in Bolt Circle Diameter - right? I haven't found anything when I've searched on 110pcm, but I have found many hits on 110 Sram and / or Shimano...

 

[jbalat]

yes it is standard pattern but you really need to watch the chain line. The one that comes with the motor has an offset inwards. Very hard to find chain rings with offsets. You may be able to get away with it but may not be able to use the granny gear !

 

[tomjasz]

Frame, version 3 will ship soon, along with a v2. Exciting after years of Bafang and only a Yoch to compare, to try something new. But im sure it'll be a slow ship and worried about frame damage.

 

[thowaa]

Some of my thoughts about the TSDZ2...

Regarding feel:
The torque sensor is certainly more than just an on/off switch.
I find it to be a big difference in the cycling feel between the TSDZ2 and Bafang BBS01.
But, the torque sensor is not like a linear throttle.
I have been told that the logic is:
If you are able to pedal very hard, you don't need assist.
If you pedal weaker, you are tired and need assist.

Regarding noise:
Noise is a subjective thing. I find my motor quite silent.
More noisy than the BBS01, but less noise than the Bosch CX.

Regarding drag:
I don't feel much drag pedaling with the power off.
The Bosch CX has a terrible drag.

Regarding the connectors:
I thought I posted it in this thread, but it was only i my chopper thread...
The connectors are Higo mini A and are discontinued according to the European distributor for Higo,
but some Chinese manufacturers are still using these connectors.
Extension cables are available from China. Ask your dealer.

 

[RTIII]

yes it is standard pattern but you really need to watch the chain line. The one that comes with the motor has an offset inwards. Very hard to find chain rings with offsets. You may be able to get away with it but may not be able to use the granny gear !

Thanks, jbalat,

and an inward offset might well be good news for me, though I'm not sure yet. IDK if you've noticed either of the two threads I started talking about gearing - one asking for help, one offering up a spreadsheet for calculating values - but I need a 52T in front for the bike to be as rideable as it was sans assistance, and also for reaching "full speed" with assistance (since the TSDZ2 is limited to 90 pedal-RPM).

I take it that I can mount a 52T on the outboard side (right of the 42T the unit comes with), yes? From the photos, it does appear there are already holes for such mounting in the 42T. ...If this works out, an inboard offset (toward center) would then tend to make an outboard mounted second chainring less of an issue than it might otherwise be.

... I have never noticed a chainring setup where it had a smaller gear on the outboard side. IDK why it wouldn't work, but I figure there's likely a reason, so keeping this pattern was something I would just do (or at least try), even though the outboard ring is usually the solid one. ... This would be the reverse of course!

As for the granny gear, I seldom use the lowest of the low... But all bets are going to be off. I've decided I'm going to make my own new rear wheel - a 27" aluminum rim with new cassette style axle (replacing the steel freewheel style wheel), and then going with a 7 gear cassette (instead of my existing 5 gear freewheel). With those two extra gears, I plan on extending the gear range in both directions, from the current 28 granny, 13 flyer to 32 and 11, respectively. ... Since I'm losing my 40T up front, the TSDZ2's 42T will be a reasonable replacement and my lowest gear will go from a 1.429 to a 1.313 ratio - even smaller! I should be able to climb hills like a mountain goat! And fly like the wind! Best of all, my overall ride without assistance will be about the same as before, just more choices.

Please advise if you think I've got a flaw in my plans!

 

[ruthra]

Hello:

I've never posted before, but have been reading Endless Sphere for 6 months, and this thread in particular for the past few. My spouse wants a pedelec so she can ride with me around here in the pacific northwest -- hilly. She's only about 5'2' and fairly light -- has a number of suitable donor bikes. After considering a front hub, I think I'm going to go with the TSDZ2, 48V/350W -- I've ridden torque-sensing mid-drives and like the bike-like feeling, which is what she wants. Here's what I have in mind: posting to see if I'm missing anything...
Get TSDZ2 from one of vendors listed above. Get 48V 13.5 AH GA downtube battery from Luna, or else drive up to Grin in Vancouver to pick up something similar. I notice people talking about incompatible connectors wit this mid-drive -- any advice on how to hook up battery/mid-drive..do I need to rewire anything? I'm an experienced bike mechanic, but have never worked with batteries/pedelecs before. Any extra parts I should order to have on hand, such as the brass replacement gear?

thanks!

Art

 

[Hickory]

Hi Art.
Sounds like a good plan.
I purchased the motor and a battery pack that had incompatible connectors. It was easy to get some new connectors and fix that problem, even though I'm sloppy and inexperienced with that stuff. I thought the connectors on the battery were better than those on the motor, so I just cut the motor ones off and attached some compatible ones. No big deal. Brass replacement gear? I didn't need anything like that.

 

[Norton]

I purchased a few XT90-S connector pairs before I even have my mid-drive and battery pack.
These will future-proof your connections and are probably the best there is. The XT60 would handle the power but they don't offer the "-S" version, Anti-Spark.

If you haven't soldered wires this thick, you need some practice. A 30 watt solder station will not be adequate. You may need an old school 'solder gun'.
You want to chit and git when soldering. Get it hot, melt the solder, cool the part down by blowing on it. Connect both side of the ST90's together while soldering to help dissipate the heat and keep the pins and sockets straight.

I plan on having this power meter plugged inline occasionally to monitor battery capacity, and test power used: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LVTST80/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here's the XT90-S's and extra wire:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RVM8U5W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TG1TSUC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AITZO53LNBA1K&psc=1
I was considering going with 10ga wire to future-proof this meter, but 12ga should be good for 16A/750W systems.
XT90's are way over rated for this system but inexpensive.

EDIT Update:
I was able to cancel my Amazon order.
Now I have to back through this thread and find a trusted seller. I'm considering going with the 48V/350W version and finding a 'Mini' 48V pack, like Luna's, only in a 48V.
I like the stealth look on my gravel bike with the pack in a seat bag and keep the water bottle cage.

Can anyone recommend a seller? Thanks!

 

[eyebyesickle]

Hey guys,

I am so excited to finally make a build with one of these... I have been holding off for a loooong time with this one, but I am kind of sick of the BBS unit... I want something fresh, something new (to me)... SOMETHING WITH A TORQUE SENSOR!

I have been following this thread for a while, good info, thanks. Also, for around a year, I have been following this unit, and doing research, etc... Not that easy... I even talked to MXUS (yes, V3 Turbo mxus) who claim to have done research with TS on this unit, and sell it with their own logo sticker in the center circle...

It's clear, the display goes to 60v MAX, but even the 48v 500w models motor's top out at 54v MAX, so no 14s... (well, no charging and using over 54v, anyway, the rest is up to you).

I cannot get a real answer on the controller inside these things, and that is kind of annoying... I have been hoping to slightly beef up the controller, and add a better gear... I cannot find one for sale (although someone said there is one available?) and I cannot even get an answer that is decipherable as to the controller differences, and I am pretty good with international communication, and even have assistance. The answer is twofold - a) they don't know;; b) those who know, don't want you to know. I think a lot of us know that.

Anyway, I have a couple units on the way, and I have been wanting to test these out for a while even since someone I knew had one, but it was way back when they only had 36v350w... no thank you... I was BBS on 52v, solid rims, and solid tires with no flats around Nashville =) but let me tell you, to ride on those no flats (at that time), I could not use less power or I would be breaking even hahaha. It was worth it after getting a flat @ 30mph. I swear, I am a ninja, and landed backwards on my feet in a skid just palmed my hand a little at the end, BUT - tweaked my back in midair pretty good situating myself to do so. so point is, I need more power to muscle through the soft no flats I was rollin on back then, and the 36v350w was NOT gonna cut it...

Nowadays, I know there is a time and place for everything, I can have a power ride set aside, sometimes local legislation, or just city safety means 20mph limit, 30mph max (even excessive in busy downtown area for sure). And... that's fiiiiiine. Just fiiiiiiiiiiiiine :| haha



Anyway, I will be using those RIMS, and some 2.00 solid tires, on the build BELOW:



I picked up one local for a real good deal, and the rear shock is upgraded manitou... front is a 888 bomber... only spring, but seems good quality... I LOVE the high BB clearance...... so I am throwing on the TSDZ2 (the 3 is special frame only model) with an XH18, wired up to throttle and brakes (using hydraulic E-brake for this kit), and will test a few things.

The Plan:

1) Find or fabricate a better motor gear than the blue plastic available (any direction to point me? I thought someone mentioned one being available).

2) I will see what this thing can handle POWER WISE, and post the results...
2a) see what it takes for the blue gear to butter up (if first to failure)
2b) see what it takes for the motor to get dangerously hot/burn up - even wiring it to an external controller for testing purposes... (I am looking to make these things a little bit better).

3) I have the 104 and 130 attachments, and got the chain rings from 34 to 52 (don't ask why)... but honestly I only need the 104, and 130, because like 'ol buddy with the slick website - I am going to toy around with putting a double chain ring on this thing... I mean, I want to be able to pedal to 45MPH on flat ground... which a double chain ring and the assist here... I bet it will burn my thighs but I'll post a 45MPH flat... that is my goal with this.... hahah. I don't know... 45mph was tough with a BBS02... The double chain ring might not help me if I cant push it... (even with help from lil Thomas the TSDZ tank engine )

4) I really really want to use my solid rims (love the look) but I might go for an IGH instead ( I just picked up some nuvinci autoshifter, I have to resist using those heavy monsters with this.)

5) I will get down to the bottom of the exact controller situation with these things, and see about the wiring... and post some closeup pics etc for anyone.

I appreciate everyone adding to this thread... if anyone has any advice for me, or any requests for when I test/beat the **** out of these motors, let me know!


UPDATE:

UGH, I am torn... the downhill bike (got a great deal) iiiiis a little overbuilt for this type of thing, and I am going to have to do some fabricating... although I really want to... may take forever... ON THE OTHER HAND - I can wait maybe 30 days... and get this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kaloss-Full-suspension-frame-electric-bike-alloy-frame-E-bike-26-17-inch-Free-shipping-mountain/32797177342.html

View attachment 1


Not bad... another ali supplier... about $500 for the frame and some 'flashy' wheels... although really, I think this frame with an IGH will be a real sweet compact around town setup. It can hold 13s*4p, so I can have 48v14ah (sanyo).

Ok, I am going to make:

1) TSDZ2 on the DOWNHILL NORCO FRAME with SOLID RIMS, supped up with double chain ring, replacement gear, and TEST THE LIMITS of the gears (before I replace), the motor (after I replace gears), etc... hooking it up to an external controller if heat kills the controller before the motor... which I actually won't let happen if I can help it, but... y'know.

Once I break the motor on this build, I will use the downhill frame with my own experimental mid drive cyclone style setup I am wanting to try, and see if I can integrate a BB torque sensor in with it... I think that would really be nice... I am going to hit this baby with a domino throttle, and a left/rear brake because once I make this baby my own, not just a testing machine, she will be a wheelie monster!!!! =)

2) TSDZ2 build on the FOLDING ELECTRIC FRAME, WITH IGH, for an 'elegant folding' around town thing, that I will probably keep.

 

[MPM]

1) Find or fabricate a better motor gear than the blue plastic available (any direction to point me? I thought someone mentioned one being available).

When I needed a replacement controller for the TSDZ2 Future Bike in Italy offered a higher power controller plus upgraded metal gear. I contacted them on their info[at]future-bike.it e-mail address. In the end I decided to stay with the normal controller and plastic gear so I have not seen the upgraded parts and have no experience with them.

Good luck with your project!

 

[eyebyesickle]

1) Find or fabricate a better motor gear than the blue plastic available (any direction to point me? I thought someone mentioned one being available).

When I needed a replacement controller for the TSDZ2 Future Bike in Italy offered a higher power controller plus upgraded metal gear. I contacted them on their info[at]future-bike.it e-mail address. In the end I decided to stay with the normal controller and plastic gear so I have not seen the upgraded parts and have no experience with them.

Good luck with your project!

Ah, I see on their catalog:

http://www.future-bike.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Listino-pubblico-2017.pdf

they have modified this motor to fit a fat bike, they added a double chain ring, and they have added a skidguard etc... and I am sure like you said, done something inside... but they still rate it at 48v500w! Interesting... I wonder if that is a warranty thing for rating, or what... Seems like a lot of trouble to dress the motor all up without any extra power! Maybe just more reliable/protection etc...

Thanks for the heads up! That one sure wasn't popping up on my searches!

 

[RTIII]

[...snip!....]

...... so I am throwing on the TSDZ2 (the 3 is special frame only model) with an XH18, wired up to throttle and brakes (using hydraulic E-brake for this kit), and will test a few things.

[...snip...]

3) I have the 104 and 130 attachments, and got the chain rings from 34 to 52 (don't ask why)... but honestly I only need the 104, and 130, because like 'ol buddy with the slick website - I am going to toy around with putting a double chain ring on this thing... I mean, I want to be able to pedal to 45MPH on flat ground... which a double chain ring and the assist here... I bet it will burn my thighs but I'll post a 45MPH flat... that is my goal with this.... hahah. I don't know... 45mph was tough with a BBS02... The double chain ring might not help me if I cant push it... (even with help from lil Thomas the TSDZ tank engine )

[...snip...]

...with my own experimental mid drive cyclone style setup I am wanting to try, and see if I can integrate a BB torque sensor in with it...
[...snip...]

Hi eyebyesickle,

Some hopefully helpful comments regarding your remarks, in order of the above:

1) If you want to use a throttle my rather extensive investigation has revealed that - at least using the stock Tongsheng components - you can't do it with the Xh-18 for the simple reason that there's no place to plug in the throttle! Instead, you have to have the VLCD5 because that's where the throttle (and brake / motor cut-out switches) connect. (IF THIS IS WRONG, WILL SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY!) I want to use a throttle too (in conjunction with and not instead of the torque sensor).

2) Several owner reports earlier in the 16 pages here before this one indicate that the TSDZ2 has an upper pedal-RPM beyond which it will not any longer provide any assistance! This RPM is at about 90.

In addition, I too must have a second chainring and will be adding a 52T on the outboard side of my units original 42T. In my case, I have an older bike with a freewheel and a 14T as the highest gear. This means that the TSDZ2 will stop adding assistance at about 21.7 mph on the 42T and 26.9 on a 52T, once I install one. And, I gotta tell ya, I'm NOT happy with that! So, to figure out my best option, I created a spreadsheet that lets me quickly see the impact of various choices. And, I put it up on the web. You can download it here:

http://ScienceTools.com/misc/BicycleWheelGearChart.xls

Feel free to use it if you want - it's in Microsoft's Excel format but you can also use OpenOffice.

And;

3) Earlier in this comment thread someone posted some links to materials on the Tongsheng web site which are not otherwise advertised which show that the torque converter is actually integrated into what on a non-e-bike is called the crankset. ... The link's not super handy right now, but you can page back and find it - just look for images that display an exploded-view diagram as you step through the pages. I think it's somewhere around page 5 or so...

I also want to point out that I've designed or co-designed a lot of systems over the years (no e-bikes, but other kinds of electronic things), and I can tell you that a very specialized motor controller is required to use a torque sensor. You may get a different motor controller to make your motor move, but you'll have to design and fabricate your own if you want a non-original Tongsheng controller that also uses the torque sensor. ... Tongsheng is NOT the first - and certainly not only - company to put torque sensing into an e-bike, so there might be another unit out there in the world you could possibly secure and utilize but I'm not aware of any specifics for you. And you'd have to have the additional good luck that this other controller will have used a torque sensor with the same signal specifications - and that's not likely at all.

Good luck,
RTIII

 

[eyebyesickle]

RTIII

Thanks, great food for thought. Yeah I was wondering about the RPM limit... but until I crack er open I am not giving up.

You can wire a throttle in the xh18 no problem... I'll make some pics etc... but it will be a couple weeks, was already planning on it and I want to make it look nice...

Yeah about the torque sensor... I have a couple other torque sensors, not sure the difference in all the models L sensor, R sensor, or BOTH, but I will work all that out, and hopefully make it happen. As far as the gear, well nowadays, I can just 3d scan the little blue piece, and send the file to someone =) but that is paying high price for a single model...

Yeah, modding the actual controller to adjust RPM etc will be the biggest thing... The double chain ring must be simple enough, everyone is doing it :lol: hahaha

Well, I talk a lot - let me get to work

 

[RTIII]

[...snip...]

Well, I talk a lot - let me get to work

While you were talking - and maybe getting to work - I just took my bike out on what I hope will be one of its last completely unassisted (by the ordered TSDZ2) treks fully laiden - with oh-my-gawd headwind. ...

Today I took my bike to go to a friend's birthday party along Oakland's Lake Merritt and Google Maps says it was over 8 miles each way (which I doubt, especially because I didn't take their route since it was profoundly stupid).

A key reason to do this trek was to test my brand new luggage handling system. While I have been an occasional cycleist, and cycled since my youth, I've been using the autombile too often and am now looking to change my lifestyle and convert to all bicycle use for any and all possible activities. And if THAT is going to happen, the bike must be capable of handling all my normal activities - and that means cargo, but delivered from a more lean bike.

So, this was a test of my new, rigidly mounted rear "rack" luggage system with six fixed mounts yielding a horizontal above the rear tire (and potentially a future trailer hitch). To this was mounted an innovative and very efficient "milk crate" mounting system in which I had mounted a rectangular (larger than standard) mostly plastic "milk crate" to the right rear of the bike. This milk crate was attached via a special bolt-on attachment consisting of a single bar with special hooks on it and which hangs the crate. On top of the rack, I also very efficiently (in terms of weight) mounted a wire type "milk crate", intended to hold any very substantial weight involved. It has but one long, carefully designed and constructed, bar that retains the crate and keeps it attached _without_ the crate being able to shift side-to-side or rotate and with extremely little weight involved. But, while the wire milk-crate is so solid later in the day someone used it to break apart a bag of party-ice, the cooler with two 6-packs of beer - and attendant ice - wouldn't fit into it as intended and had to go in the plastic, side-mounted milk-crate instead, thus loading the side-mounted milk-crate MUCH more than I had intended with this test. An additional change from this was that I had to fit the remaining 6-pack of beer (in a paper bag) into the wire-type milk create, along with a back-pack I could have but didn't wear with an additional 10 lbs or so of stuff, including things like front and rear lamps (in case I was out after dark), a jacket, and other unsundries. On the left side of the bike I'd mounted two folding chairs. These were originally sold by the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival in New Orleans and are fairly modest in design. Designed to be carried in the festival, I decided to wrap them in an old blanket, both to provide choices for our park-end party and to capture the otherwise dangling straps and such and encapsulate it all. The pair were then attached via bungie cords to the LEFT side of the rear luggage rack. ... In the end, the bike was very heavily laiden - almost, but not quite, to the point of launching the front upward when I got off!

This experience STARTED with the most excruciating headwind I can recall and I nearly turned back, except this was my friend's birthday party, and I was already late. I had a perfectly head-on headwind for something like 8 miles, and in those 8 miles I gained a new appreciation for the low gears I nearly never use! DAMN were they important! ... Once I got there, someone cited a National Weather Service report that said that the winds were actually a steady 26 MPH with gusts much higher. I can easily believe that; just doing a measily 4 MPH was extremely difficult. But I didn't pause at all...

To my surprise, when I got there, I was greeted with delight! Of the 20-ish people, over half were bike riders , and all were interested in my innovative (one-off) luggage rack designs. People were stunned at the total weight of what I'd brought, and its variety - it was immediately visible and obvious, whatever the contents. Pulling out a fully-loaded two-6-pack (with ice) sized ice chest immediately upon arrival from the over-sized milk-crate stunned the crowd and, a few minutes later, there was an audible gasp from the crowd when I removed that milk-crate by just lifting it up and pulling it out! It wasn't even bolted in! Efficient Design! Then, when I lifted out the grocery bag with the now-warm-ish 6 pack, people started to approach and ask questions. WTF was going on with this bike?!

I learned a few things about my ride, and that was the whole point. Among these are:

1) DAMN do I need the TSDZ2 assistance as the headwinds were something I never want to repeat on my own, especially with this kind of load - which may be common if I'm to replace my automobile.

2) The bike really needs a front-mounted cargo carrier because on some occasions of loading, or even when riding at particular points, the nose became light enough to be trouble to handle - trouble that would not happen if there were more weight in the front. And, this loading is NOT the peak loading I anticipate.

3) At least some of the bolt-on parts of the luggage-rack system came lose - lock-washers or other solutions are required.

4) Google-Maps is not a great guide for bicyclists, though they may offer routes to be considered. I deviated from their proposed routes intentionally to get away from the damned wind. A 26+ MPH headwind is a real killer.

5) Given that we have, earlier in this thread, seen people report wiped-out blue gears on the motor due to heavy torque, I have to believe that paying attention to gearing is vital. Force is force. My 26+ mile per hour headwind experience cannot be blindly overridden via electrification; I will - and we all need to - pay attention to these conditions and choose gearing appropriately. (Someone at the birthday party proposed I shouldn't stop at 7 and instead go all the way to an 11 gear cassette {I now have a 5 gear freewheel} to help give even steps all the way up and down and I now see the wisdom of that proposal!) ... Honestly, NEVER have I understood more clearly the value of low-end gearing. And if you want to NOT wipe out your blue gear, you'd better be using a lower gearing, too!

... Sorry for getting " a little off topic" but then, while I talk about a non-e-bike experience, it's just informative about what I imagine are the situations of others - and, the issues some of us face as we do our electrification!

Best wishes...

 

[eyebyesickle]

Man, yeah that wind resistance can be a killer. Well, a little more than resistance there, huh? :lol: NO THANKS for me hahah. I need something more than a TSDZ2 for that, but hey

Had a chat with MARCO @ future-bike and have to say he is a great guy. I am ordering one of the black protection carters for the motor, and also a copper gear to test, which I will have to load up on if they are good! Yaaaay. The 48v500w is the same controller as from china... love it when someone is up front, how refreshing.

They also make 100mm AND 120mm fat bike kits, so that is AWESOME (pictured with black guard)



http://www.future-bike.it/

there is the website... he responded within 24hrs, very professional, emailed, proceeded to skype to sort details, pending a paypal invoice... everything is very above board, and you can see by the fabrication these guys are serious. very nice, and great to see this lil spot being filled. I had no idea! Now, if I can get them to ship me a pair of ENKO running shoes with the parts, I will be the happiest man alive!

If you don't know about enko running shoes...just....don't. Sorry, a lil off topic myself!

 

[Norton]

,,,,,5) Given that we have, earlier in this thread, seen people report wiped-out blue gears on the motor due to heavy torque, I have to believe that paying attention to gearing is vital. Force is force......
And if you want to NOT wipe out your blue gear, you'd better be using a lower gearing, too!

Best wishes...

This Italian link above ^ is still selling the Tongsheng TSDZ2 kits. Do you really think they are making and selling the adapter to make it fit a fat bike? And the bronze or brass gear? I suspect they are just another reseller like all the rest.
But the skid plate is kind of cool!

The blue plastic gear melts when the motor is driven hard and hot, and as you said, probably SLOW RPM.
The permanent magnets in the rotor absorb the energy the stator is putting out and that makes the whole rotor and geared shaft HOT.

I don't get the thinking that you are accomplishing anything by over-driving an electronic/electrical component until you let the smoke out.
If you want more than a 500W motor why not just buy a Bafang 750W or 1000W motor, instead of trying to break chit???

Did you know that SRAM is selling a line of ebike drive train components? http://ebike-mtb.com/en/sram-ex1-lowdown-first-ever-e-mtb-drivetrain/
I may go with the EX-1 chain and 11-31 8spd cass/shifter/derail. They have a really expensive EX cassette.

 

[RTIII]

This Italian link above ^ is still selling the Tongsheng TSDZ2 kits. Do you really think they are making and selling the adapter to make it fit a fat bike? And the bronze or brass gear? I suspect they are just another reseller like all the rest.
But the skid plate is kind of cool!

The blue plastic gear melts when the motor is driven hard and hot, and as you said, probably SLOW RPM.
The permanent magnets in the rotor absorb the energy the stator is putting out and that makes the whole rotor and geared shaft HOT.

I don't get the thinking that you are accomplishing anything by over-driving an electronic/electrical component until you let the smoke out.
If you want more than a 500W motor why not just buy a Bafang 750W or 1000W motor, instead of trying to break chit???

Did you know that SRAM is selling a line of ebike drive train components? http://ebike-mtb.com/en/sram-ex1-lowdown-first-ever-e-mtb-drivetrain/
I may go with the EX-1 chain and 11-31 8spd cass/shifter/derail. They have a really expensive EX cassette.

Norton,

I have no idea about that Italian business; I don't speak or read Italian and can't read their ads, but it has been reported here that they're making a new metal replacement for the blue nylon gear. If it runs against another metal gear, it should be bronze, probably, but if another nylon gear, either copper or brass would do as well. (Bronze and brass are very similar but where bronze has tin, brass has zinc - brass is lighter but is both less strong and more prone to corrosion than bronze, and either is stronger than plain copper. However, copper would be softer and make less noise if run against another metal gear and if a nylon gear will do, surely a copper one is very plausible.

I don't think it melts from heat. More likely, it's just too much torque load - low RPM at high torque. Surely, heat doesn't help any, or it could be the combination of heat and torque. More data needed for a definitive answer - and such could be gained from running under various conditions on the equipment at Sram!

I agree with your comment about over-driving; not a good idea, likely gains zero, or at least not worth the risk. But if you have lots of money and it's all just fun, sure, knock yourself out.

I did not know about Sram's new line - thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I haven't got 450 pounds laying around for it, but I'll be sure to prepare for the day I could run it! I do note, however, that their front-sprocket conversation is inapplicable to our TSDZ2s because the running speed of the motor is intentionally calculated for an intended 42T to be somewhat rational. Sure, this can be changed, but it would be silly to think you could go down much; you'd have to re-gear the TSDZ2 completely... I don't see the benefit - run the Sram EX1 in the rear and do what makes sense in the front! (I'll be adding a 52T - looking to order one TODAY, recommendations welcome!) And note that we can simply stop adding torque with our feet when we shift (if we can under the circumstances) so we don't tear up cassettes, freewheels and chainrings! (Doctor, doctor! It hurts when I move my arm like this!?!? Doctor: So, stop doing that!)

 

[MPM]

Honestly, NEVER have I understood more clearly the value of low-end gearing. And if you want to NOT wipe out your blue gear, you'd better be using a lower gearing, too!

Sounds like a fun adventure and party you had! I'm not far from you then, in the East Bay too.

About low gearing, I posted earlier in this topic about having installed a Rohloff internally geared rear hub to get my heavily loaded bike up (and down) the hills here. It offers a 526% gear range in 14 equally spaced steps, even with the standard single TSDZ2 front ring. It allows for a strong rear wheel because its spokes are laced symmetrically, not dished as you would need to do to fit a cassette.

The only drawbacks I see is firstly that the TSDZ2 responds with a slight delay to my reducing torque, so I have to consciously wait half a second or so after I ease off before I change gears. And secondly, the hub is expensive at around $1000 while the rest of my bike was cheap.

But from another point of view my bike is now an alternative to the Rohloff equipped Optibikes, which go for $12k or so. And I get torque-sensing!

Either way, I think the Rohloff combines beautifully with the TSDZ2. And it also helps me enjoy riding without assistance a lot of the time.

And if you want to NOT wipe out your blue gear, you'd better be using a lower gearing, too!

I have not had any trouble with the standard plastic gear in the TSDZ2. Don't know if it's thanks to the low gearing, but my impression is that the trouble people have had with plastic gears comes mostly from over-boosting their Bafang units. I'm looking forward to see how eyebyesickle will do on boosting the TSDZ2.

2) The bike really needs a front-mounted cargo carrier

Like you figured, I needed to keep the front wheel on the ground so my work bag (with my battery in it) is on a front rack. Works great.

4) Google-Maps is not a great guide for bicyclists

Right! Last week I changed my route from what Google had suggested. My original commute route had 42 lights, my new one 14. The new route is shorter too and is on quieter streets. I feel silly it took me so long to figure this out.

 

[RTIII]

Sounds like a fun adventure and party you had! I'm not far from you then, in the East Bay too.

We're having another gathering, a pot-luck "barbecue" (may or may not be actual barbecue present!) this coming Saturday at my workshop. In the afternoon, I'm hosting an open-house and afterward, at about 6PM, we have the pot-luck. It's being held in an industrial space near the Oakland Coliseum, about a block and a half from the DMV at 85th Ave and Edes. It's all-industrial, between Enterprise and Baldwin on 85th, and is BART-able. If you want to come, send me a private message here and I'll send you the data!

About low gearing, I posted earlier in this topic about having installed a Rohloff internally geared rear hub to get my heavily loaded bike up (and down) the hills here. It offers a 526% gear range in 14 equally spaced steps, even with the standard single TSDZ2 front ring. It allows for a strong rear wheel because its spokes are laced symmetrically, not dished as you would need to do to fit a cassette.

The only drawbacks I see is firstly that the TSDZ2 responds with a slight delay to my reducing torque, so I have to consciously wait half a second or so after I ease off before I change gears. And secondly, the hub is expensive at around $1000 while the rest of my bike was cheap.

...Haven't got the $1000 to put into a hub. So, instead, I'm just about to either make or have made for me a 27" X 1.25" aluminum rim made for me, or I'm going to do it myself, and then run a modern cassette. I was thinking of using the Shimano HG51-aw, which has 8 gears, 32 to 11. With "only" 8, you get wider spacing which Sram has said makes e-bike shifting easier (see previous link, upthread a few posts). I'm going to mate that with a new, STEEL, 110 52T chainring - hope it works out line-wise! Also not sure if I'll have to lengthen the chain a link or two to accommodate the 32 as the low gear now is a 28.

BTW, is the stock 42T on the TSDZ2 aluminum or steel?

I hope you'll attend Saturday's event - and ride your Rohloff / TSDZ2 equipped bike!

I have not had any trouble with the standard plastic gear in the TSDZ2. Don't know if it's thanks to the low gearing, but my impression is that the trouble people have had with plastic gears comes mostly from over-boosting their Bafang units. I'm looking forward to see how eyebyesickle will do on boosting the TSDZ2.

I wasn't aware that Bafang units have a blue gear to get wiped out! :wink:

I'm also having a hell of a time contacting anyone at LG to buy cells from, but today I made headway; I got to a salesman who said he's the WRONG salesman and pointed me at someone else... Maybe someday.

I'm thinking I'm going to probably end up buying from Lunacycle from their store in SF!

 

[RTIII]

Can someone please tell me what mounting bolts / hardware I need to add a second chainring to my TSDZ2? It's still on the slow-boat from China! :lol: I'm hoping to add all the gearing at the same time I install the unit.

I guess I'm going to need a spacer style... I was thinking of this set:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GSQO3W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2RNBXAVQ4OOHG

Can someone confirm, please?

 

[squee22]

any 110 hole diameter sprocket will work. Spacer sizes will depend on your chain dimension - but don't go too thick or you might interere with the motor. IDK - I only have the one sprocket on mine.

I did a 52 tooth on the front, 16 on the back with a shinamo nexus 7 internal hub gearing, and 20 inch wheels. Gets up to 32kph (legal limit) without too much work.

Your mileage will vary - but the bigger front sprocket the better imho

 

[squee22]

RTIII

Thanks, great food for thought. Yeah I was wondering about the RPM limit... but until I crack er open I am not giving up.

You can wire a throttle in the xh18 no problem... I'll make some pics etc... but it will be a couple weeks, was already planning on it and I want to make it look nice...

Yeah about the torque sensor... I have a couple other torque sensors, not sure the difference in all the models L sensor, R sensor, or BOTH, but I will work all that out, and hopefully make it happen. As far as the gear, well nowadays, I can just 3d scan the little blue piece, and send the file to someone =) but that is paying high price for a single model...

Yeah, modding the actual controller to adjust RPM etc will be the biggest thing... The double chain ring must be simple enough, everyone is doing it :lol: hahaha

Well, I talk a lot - let me get to work

If you have a wiring diagram of how to connect a throttle to the xh18 that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[eyebyesickle]

well with the xh18, the throttle doesn't go from the display, you have to tap into it from the controller, or mid line, depending how it was sent to you... you really have to open it up... you can get them prewired... the connector just splits before the display, unlike the old display where 1 wire goes in, and then they go from the display to the rest...

ill be opening em up and posting pics within a couple weeks...

 

[RTIII]

any 100 hole diameter sprocket will work. Spacer sizes will depend on your chain dimension - but don't go too thick or you might interere with the motor. IDK - I only have the one sprocket on mine.

I did a 52 tooth on the front, 16 on the back with a shinamo nexus 7 internal hub gearing, and 20 inch wheels. Gets up to 32kph (legal limit) without too much work.

Your mileage will vary - but the bigger front sprocket the better imho

Thanks for the post, squee22, but I SURE HOPE that was a typo! Others have reported the size is 110 BCD, and so I ordered one yesterday!

...I was actually asking about the mounting hardware, thinking I'd already gotten the gear - now I need to be able to mount it! ... It looks from photos that the TSDZ2 has female threads in an aluminum hub of some kind and the chainring and guard are mounted with a male bolt with internal hex - likely 5 or 6mm allen key is my guess. But how do you mount a SECOND one on there? My guess is that the guard must be placed at a reasonable spacing from the existing chainring, and since I want to mount my 52T on the outside, I could perhaps just bolt it on where the guard is now. Would be nice to have a guard, though!

Any input on this point (from someone who's added a second chainring, preferably!) is greatly appreciated!