New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Patoruzu]

You are not even mentioning your batteries. 36? 48?
Maybe you can run the 48v @ 36v and keep the display.

However I would still ask, why throttle at all?
I see no practical usage unless you plan to move without pedaling at all

 

[extrasilver]

You are not even mentioning your batteries. 36? 48?
Maybe you can run the 48v @ 36v and keep the display.

However I would still ask, why throttle at all?
I see no practical usage unless you plan to move without pedaling at all

right now i have a 36v lipo battery ( 2x 5ah 18.5v packs ) and i'm also using a 20 amp boost converter running at 44.6v

once i have the 48v system up and running i can easily upgrade the battery from 36 to 48v by purchasing a 3 cell lipo of the same mode and then wire it up in series.. i will also still be using the boost converter to boost it up to 54.6v.. just below the max voltage limit.

reason i want a throttle is for the long straights mainly.. because my bike is a single speed, once i'm up to its max speed ( due to cadence reasons ) i'd like to us a throttle to cruise with.. i'm tired of peddling like crazy for a few seconds, then cruising, then peddling like crazy, then cruising once again along 7+ Km straight along the river on my way to work

 

[Patoruzu]

It is not important in your case anymore, but for a single speed bike, wouldn't have been better/simpler a hub motor?

Now a question that no one dared to answer me before.

Is your boost converter "constant voltage"?
Does constant voltage bring any advantage over the decaying voltage of the battery? I would presume that with a decaying voltage battery, the controller would still take the desired wattage (as oppose to those incandescent flashlights where the light decays with the battery charge
As disadvantage, the controller will think you are always at full battery.

 

[extrasilver]

It is not important in your case anymore, but for a single speed bike, wouldn't have been better/simpler a hub motor?

Now a question that no one dared to answer me before.

Is your boost converter "constant voltage"?
Does constant voltage bring any advantage over the decaying voltage of the battery? I would presume that with a decaying voltage battery, the controller would still take the desired wattage (as oppose to those incandescent flashlights where the light decays with the battery charge
As disadvantage, the controller will think you are always at full battery.

because its a single speed i have a rear drop out of only 120mm, this limits my me massively on which hub motor i can use.. only one i managed to find was a Q100H which i left with my local bike shop for nearly 5 weeks to lace up.. but they failed so i settled for a mid drive instead which i could install myself at home.

correct, the output is fixed but the input ranges from 36-42v.. i noticed the motor slowing down quite a lot as the voltage came down due to discharge, reducing my top speed ( single speed problems xD) , so the booster solves that problem for me.. and also correct , the battery meter gives me false readings but the booster does have a low voltage cut-off

the peak wattage will decrease as the battery voltage comes down, example below

fully charged - 42v @ 16 amps = 672 watts
almost fully discharged - 36 @ 16 amps = 576 watts

boosted @ 44.5v @ 16 amps = 712 watts

and as the voltage comes down, the motor's peak RPM's also come down.. resulting in me being able to peddle fast than the motor can

personally i'm not bothered about the battery meter.. if the battery dies it just turns into a normal bike

 

[extrasilver]

you can follow my bike build here

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/304708/

pictures, video's and information is all listed here

 

[extrasilver]

 

[Daytriker]

as i'm riding a single speed track bike i decided to upgrade the plastic gear to a metal one

extrasilver, I am picking up a 36 volt/350 watt version that has developed a problem after only 6o kms of use. I am not sure yet what the problem is but from the customers feedback, "Sounds like nuts & bolts are rattling around inside." Since the nylon gear seems to be a common failure point on the TSD, it's where I am going to look first although the rider is a Senior lady so I am doubting extensive abuse. A couple of questions -
For visually inspecting the blue gear do I go in from the chainring side or the motor side?
For replacement of the blue gear to the brass gear, do I need any special tools or to add washers or shims to the gear or is it just a drop in fit? - Thank you in advance.

 

[extrasilver]

as i'm riding a single speed track bike i decided to upgrade the plastic gear to a metal one

extrasilver, I am picking up a 36 volt/350 watt version that has developed a problem after only 6o kms of use. I am not sure yet what the problem is but from the customers feedback, "Sounds like nuts & bolts are rattling around inside." Since the nylon gear seems to be a common failure point on the TSD, it's where I am going to look first although the rider is a Senior lady so I am doubting extensive abuse. A couple of questions -
For visually inspecting the blue gear do I go in from the chainring side or the motor side?
For replacement of the blue gear to the brass gear, do I need any special tools or to add washers or shims to the gear or is it just a drop in fit? - Thank you in advance.

Hi there

if its a senior rider who's never ridden an ebike before they have ridden in a low gear up a hill.. even tho the motor CAN still pull you up you run a high risk of damaging the gear, but i wouldn't say to blame the customer.. just yet anyway

if your looking to check out the blue gear id recommend searching on youtube for " Sostituzione ingranaggio motore Active Torque" their is a video that will show you how to upgrade the gear / accessing the gear

as yes, its just a straight swap.. no extra items needed

 

[Daytriker]

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[Patoruzu]

So, in other words, you say that the constant voltage will only give you a consistent peak wattage, and that the (non constant voltage) motor will still take similar wattage under similar non-stressing situations at different voltages?

I am mainly concerned about decreased assistance at a non-stressed sustained speeds (cruising) on low/lower bat (fully loaded touring bike, too heavy for a day long non assisted ride)

 

[extrasilver]

So, in other words, you say that the constant voltage will only give you a consistent peak wattage, and that the (non constant voltage) motor will still take similar wattage under similar non-stressing situations at different voltages?

I am mainly concerned about decreased assistance at a non-stressed sustained speeds (cruising) on low/lower bat (fully loaded touring bike, too heavy for a day long non assisted ride)

the constant voltage will allow the system to keeps its highest running speed.
without a booster - the system will become a little sluggish as the battery voltage comes down

have you ever ridden an e-bike in the past? if so you will know that perky/sporty hot-off the charger feeling? well if you have a booster you will always have that " hot-off the charger" feel from 100% charge down to 0%

 

[extrasilver]

forgot to mention the total wattage pulled when using the booster

fully charged 36v battery - 42v @ 16 amps = 672 watts
fully discharged 36v battery - 30v @ 16 amps = 480 watts

boosted battery - 44.5v @ 16 amps = 712 watts

---------------------------

and once i have my 48 volt 18 amp controller installed

54.5v @ 18 amps = 981 watts .. cant wait

 

[Patoruzu]

I see, so the controller does not know how to keep constant voltage internally.

Do you have the circuit? Or the link to the one you are using?

I have some space in the battery case, will add a 5v step down converter (for a USB charging plug) and at the same time a step up, now that you confirm it keeps the performance consistent.

I have a BMS in the battery, so do not care about the cut off. But could add the booster between the ah/watt/volt meter and the motor.

 

[RTIII]

An update on my 48v 18a 4000rpm installation as promised

Thanks for the update.

I particularly appreciate the discussion of what DID NOT work about the various throttle-related issues. This has been an often discussed topic here, but we are really only now potentially nailing down the exact boundaries of the situation, since there are mixed voltages going on here, etc. (more on this below) ... I've seen throttle kits for either display type, VLCD-5 and Xh-18. But it certainly seems crazy to me that Tongsheng would be dumb enough to require BOTH a different controller AND a different display to get throttle (vs the non-throttle type). But then, it seems crazy to me that ALL the controllers and displays aren't capable of just adding the right plug-in hardware of throttle (and maybe cut-out switches). It literally throws away the opportunity to easily make a little more money selling the throttles and cut-out switches, and means there are LOTS of throttle-interested customers who are instantly pissed off before they even get very far with their purchase. DUMB.

I took the free delivery chance and also ordered the throttle, and it works (I was not sure it would, no breaks cables, I use it for testing)

OK, so here, it reads as if you're saying they sent you a standard, no-throttle Xh-18 but of the wrong voltage, and when you got it replaced for free with the correct voltage, you added a throttle and it works as a proper throttle, though you have no ability to add motor-cut-out brake switches. Do I read that correctly? If so, then the only thing that needs changing out may be the display!

...I find it interesting that you put washers inboard of the spider to effect clearance from the dual chainrings. ... IDK if you had read about my work before you did all that, but I was "there before you" and documented the problem you solved that way. However, do recognize that that solution has two engineering problems you may not have considered: 1) you've now opened up the internals to potential water ingestion, or at least are defeating the function of the large ring seal just inboard of the spider. And; 2) the spider will no longer be fully supported throughout its diameter by the mating face for which it was designed. This opens up the potential for fatigue cracking, which cast aluminum parts (like the spider) are known for, depending on the exact alloy, and just how "over-engineered" (or not) the part may be. ... Here's a link to my work and my solution:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88711

(There's good info on the TSDZ2 system and its gear issues in many parts of that thread, but the adapter I made is described in detail sufficient to make one about 2/3 down the page linked to above.)

The short of it is; IF you care about both chainline AND ability to use a derailleur to change chainrings while riding, you've got to do something special like my adapter or your washers. FLAT gears on either side of the spider will work with a VERY far from centerline derailleur but push the chainline WAY outboard - and it already starts pretty far out with the stock 42T.

In ALL the images I've seen that attempt to run two chainrings on the inboard side of the spider, using the same mounting holes, fail due to the fact that the 42T is already as far inboard as can be done. ALL the other setups put a chainring on either side of the spider, and if you do this using the stock 42T, the chain cannot be moved over while riding because even if you have a derailleur that'll go that far, the gap is too wide and the chain will fall inbetween.

I haven't yet seen all the new gears being offered, such as the 52T - but YOU have. I've already asked the seller, with NO reply yet; is the 52T gear steel or some alloy of aluminum? I WANT STEEL because I'm going to put it through some abuse.

The seller also told me that the most efficient rpm was 4000, that was the only wrong information so far. Wattage testing showed that under identical speed, a faster gear uses less wattage (of course this is what I expected)

I'm curious about this. Firstly, it's well known that the TSDZ2 cuts out at about 90 pedal RPM, so in your lower gear you could well be bumping up against that and YOU are providing the extra power? Or, maybe, you did this with the throttle? And, did you try different levels of "assist?" I'd be keen on seeing details! (One of these days I've got to get my own watt / ampere meter I can see while riding - not to mention a working throttle.)

I also upgraded my 9speeds 11-32 to 11 speeds 11-50. On the hills I was very happy with the original set up, but on the speed side sometimes (not very often) I felt I needed one more speed (when cruising too easily at 35km/h)

Hmmm... You're running an "11-speed chain?" I was under the impression that the stock chainrings were made for "7-speed chain." Please clarify if you can.

I tested the parallel set up only for the community but I will stay 52T with 11-50 without front derailleur.

If I could get an 11-50T rear working, I'd skip the front derailleur too! However, you didn't need to do this "only for the community", as I'd already done it! :wink:

This will also allow me to better optimize the chain length and have the 52T a little closer to the motor. Just the 42T thickness and the washers. Pity the 52T is not curved, maybe because it was the "parallel" version.

...Just take off the 42T (and the washers you added), and then space the 52T well inboard. You can't do as well as the curved gear, but you can move it inboard considerably. Tongsheng will have to make us a curved version of the 52T.

 

[RTIII]

I am picking up a 36 volt/350 watt version that has developed a problem after only 6o kms of use. I am not sure yet what the problem is but from the customers feedback, "Sounds like nuts & bolts are rattling around inside." Since the nylon gear seems to be a common failure point on the TSD, it's where I am going to look first although the rider is a Senior lady so I am doubting extensive abuse.

To add to what extrasilver was saying; I've found very often that older people (not just females) can be confused with newer technology that's unfamiliar. And, in particular, Americans tend to have an "if it works at all, go with it" kind of mentality. The "if it starts, drive it" mentality was real trouble for VW as Americans notoriously never adjusted their valves every 3000 miles nor even changed the oil regularly. So, perhaps this person just rode it anyway. "Oh, I need assistance, so MAX assistance it is. Now, here's a hill I need to ride..."

Many need to be coached, "ALWAYS start off without any assistance or at most the lowest level, and wait to add assistance /boost until you're moving at some speed. Never start off up hill - have some momentum first, and always downshift BEFORE you get to the hill!" Etc.

 

[Daytriker]

Thanks for the feedback RT111. Once I get the unit back I'll post my findings & if it is the Blue Gear that has failed I think I will just switch it to the Brass Gear for reliability. I think it would be short sighted of the company to produce a gear that would fail so prematurely especially since it is a 'gentle rider' & only 60kms riding distance. That's what has me thinking it is likely something else.

 

[squee22]

Has anyone posted a video or could post a video of the sound emanating from a newish TSDZ2 motor - I'm looking at other options as I'm after a near silent e-assist to fit into my velomobile where sound is amplified, thus the quieter the better. Although it's not that loud, my TSDZ2 does whirr when under higher load. Looking at MAC and Q128H motors as well as other mid drives for inspiration, if the latest TSDZ isn't a fair bit quieter. I'm told Direct Drive are near silent but then one has issues of cogging or as someone suggested, running at very low assist (25W) so that cogging is eliminated but that is still lost power.
With the 48V motor, is one supported when one pedals at a higher cadence? I find my 36V one cuts support too early as I ride a recumbent with short cranks, thus spin them faster.
I've watched a couple of videos online of the TSDZ2, one recorded in June this year, and mine sounds quite similar; this is the TSDZ2B 500W motor so I guess it must be quite new: Noise can be heard at 03:04 onwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FFOSwGLzU

Just did one for you. Enjoy

https://youtu.be/qJszwRDe_tY

 

[squee22]

So, in other words, you say that the constant voltage will only give you a consistent peak wattage, and that the (non constant voltage) motor will still take similar wattage under similar non-stressing situations at different voltages?

I am mainly concerned about decreased assistance at a non-stressed sustained speeds (cruising) on low/lower bat (fully loaded touring bike, too heavy for a day long non assisted ride)

Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.

Would I recommend it? only if getting peak performance all the time is very important to you. It's a cheap and easy upgrade, but I only lose like 5kph from full charge to 25% so I don't see the need myself. You could also use this to overvoltage the motor a bit and maybe get some additional performance (fully charged 36 V battery is 42, but with the boost I could give it 44 for instance)

If you do this make sure you pick one up that is rated to handle the peak current loads this motor demands and then some. otherwise the converter will overheat and burn out. Also mount it somewhere the heat can easily dissipate cause that lost efficiency will be given off as heat on the converter.

 

[squee22]

Thanks for the feedback RT111. Once I get the unit back I'll post my findings & if it is the Blue Gear that has failed I think I will just switch it to the Brass Gear for reliability. I think it would be short sighted of the company to produce a gear that would fail so prematurely especially since it is a 'gentle rider' & only 60kms riding distance. That's what has me thinking it is likely something else.

These plastic gears are designed to fail so that the damage occurs on a cheap easy to replace part and you don't fry the motor or controller. It's like a shear pin, or a mechanical fuse... I would not upgrade this gear. It was designed to be weak for a reason. I'd adjust my riding style so it didn't fail.

 

[Patoruzu]

Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.

10% is is a no go. I would run out of battery with a converter before I would start feeling performance loss.
My needs are autonomy over power.

But I read one can reach 95%-97% efficiency with a switched boost converter.
Specially if the voltages are relatively close.

 

[Patoruzu]

An update on my 48v 18a 4000rpm installation as promised

I've seen throttle kits for either display type, VLCD-5 and Xh-18. But it certainly seems crazy to me that Tongsheng would be dumb enough to require BOTH a different controller AND a different display to get throttle (vs the non-throttle type).

I think they designed the controller with the VLCD-5 in mind and later they hacked in the XH18.
I see the throttle as nothing more than an alternative/fake torque sensor at max assist level. The controller then does it's job regardless of where the signal is coming from. I do not know where the breaks connect with the XH18 though. Or why not all VLCD-5 work with an added throttle. Maybe only the HIGO cables are different (less cables inside the HIGO = cheaper ?) ?

OK, so here, it reads as if you're saying they sent you a standard, no-throttle Xh-18 but of the wrong voltage, and when you got it replaced for free with the correct voltage, you added a throttle and it works as a proper throttle, though you have no ability to add motor-cut-out brake switches. Do I read that correctly? If so, then the only thing that needs changing out may be the display!

Correct, the throttle capability was there in the controller, and I had the (wrongly sent) split cable to use it.
Are you saying there is an Xh-18 with input for breaks? I would have expected a different split cable for that.

...I find it interesting that you put washers inboard of the spider to effect clearance from the dual chainrings. ... IDK if you had read about my work before you did all that, but I was "there before you" and documented the problem you solved that way. However, do recognize that that solution has two engineering problems you may not have considered: 1) you've now opened up the internals to potential water ingestion, or at least are defeating the function of the large ring seal just inboard of the spider. And; 2) the spider will no longer be fully supported throughout its diameter by the mating face for which it was designed. This opens up the potential for fatigue cracking, which cast aluminum parts (like the spider) are known for, depending on the exact alloy, and just how "over-engineered" (or not) the part may be. ...

I did read it, but maybe I understood something wrongly, I thought your problem was chainline and distance between chainrings. In any case the washers were a proof of concept, when I realize that the friction was minimal and that not tightening the screws too much solved the friction problem. Better than 4 washers would be a ring with 5 holes. the required thickness is really a fraction of a millimeter. But the friction was the only problem, the chainline and the distance between chainrings was perfect. You can see the chainline pics I made with the single 42T and both 11-32 and 11-50

I haven't yet seen all the new gears being offered, such as the 52T - but YOU have. I've already asked the seller, with NO reply yet; is the 52T gear steel or some alloy of aluminum? I WANT STEEL

It is steal, but flat. A pity, because it could be curved way more than the 42T since it has nothing close to touch inwards at that diameter!

I'm curious about this. Firstly, it's well known that the TSDZ2 cuts out at about 90 pedal RPM, so in your lower gear you could well be bumping up against that and YOU are providing the extra power? Or, maybe, you did this with the throttle? And, did you try different levels of "assist?" I'd be keen on seeing details! (One of these days I've got to get my own watt / ampere meter I can see while riding - not to mention a working throttle.)

I am not sure what you mean.
The seller told me the most efficient internal (not pedal) RPM is 4000 (the max RPM)
I tried to measure wattage are at constant speed and different gears. It was impossible. The wattage was jumpy, very dependent on minimal torque changes, and speed. So I got off the bike, put a stand and tested with the throttle (no pedaling no torque no assist). At different constant speeds, the gear that shows less wattage is always the fastest one (11T). Or, in other words, sames speed at lower cadence is more battery efficient.

Hmmm... You're running an "11-speed chain?" I was under the impression that the stock chainrings were made for "7-speed chain." Please clarify if you can.

I started with a 9 speed chain.
Now I am running a 11 speed chain, did not notice any immediate problem.
Anything I need to be aware off?

...Just take off the 42T (and the washers you added), and then space the 52T well inboard. You can't do as well as the curved gear, but you can move it inboard considerably. Tongsheng will have to make us a curved version of the 52T.

If course I did. 52T 11-50 is more than great I will need to add a few more links to the chain, it gets too tight already at 52T-42 (the chain is currently calibrated for maximum length at 42T-11). So in fact 42T+52T +11-50 is not viable with a long cage Shimano M8000 and probably neither with any other rear derailleur, and it shouldn't be. 11-50 is for 1x. I will ask CONHIS MOTOR if they have other curved chainrings

 

[RTIII]

Thank you, Patoruzu, for your reply. I love technical discussions, especially about problems / issues I've been working on myself!

I think they designed the controller with the VLCD-5 in mind and later they hacked in the XH18.

Yes, makes sense.

I see the throttle as nothing more than an alternative/fake torque sensor at max assist level. The controller then does it's job regardless of where the signal is coming from.

That's how I would do it, if I were the engineer.

I do not know where the breaks connect with the XH18 though. Or why not all VLCD-5 work with an added throttle. Maybe only the HIGO cables are different (less cables inside the HIGO = cheaper ?) ?

I don't know where the brakes fit on an Xh-18, either, and I went to show a link to a vendor selling such a thing and then found that I must have been wrong, or they pulled the ad! I was hoping we could see in their sales photos what the wiring loom might be like but can't find it now. My bet is, you got lucky that it works! Where do you plug YOUR Xh-18's throttle into?! I plug in my (non-functional) throttle into the back of the VLCD-5.

I also don't know why all VLCD-5's don't work with a throttle, and agree that the speculation that it's a different wiring going through the loom is possible. However, WHY HAVE TO HASTLE WITH WHICH LOOM A CUSTOMER GOT?! CRAZY! It can't save but a penny or so each, and has other costs which seem to me to loom larger!

I've ordered a unit with throttle, both with VLCD-5, so I'll see if I can figure this out. However, I do know someone who CAN figure it out, if only he'll take the time - he reads here... HINT-HINT-HINT! but I don't want to call him out!

OK, so here, it reads as if you're saying they sent you a standard, no-throttle Xh-18 but of the wrong voltage, and when you got it replaced for free with the correct voltage, you added a throttle and it works as a proper throttle, though you have no ability to add motor-cut-out brake switches. Do I read that correctly? If so, then the only thing that needs changing out may be the display!

Correct, the throttle capability was there in the controller, and I had the (wrongly sent) split cable to use it.

Not sure what you mean about split-cable. My JUNE 48v 15A unit ("500w") runs one cable up to the VLCD-5 which has its own additional cable that goes to the "remote control" unit. All the throttle and brake wiring goes to the back of the VLCD-5 mounting system - no additional "split."

Are you saying there is an Xh-18 with input for breaks? I would have expected a different split cable for that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be interpreted that way; I have never seen the Xh-18 in person, dont' know how it's cabled. And now I'm thinking that while I had thought so, now I'm uncertain that I ever saw a throttled unit with the Xh-18 for sale.

I did read it, but maybe I understood something wrongly, I thought your problem was chainline and distance between chainrings. In any case the washers were a proof of concept, when I realize that the friction was minimal and that not tightening the screws too much solved the friction problem. Better than 4 washers would be a ring with 5 holes. the required thickness is really a fraction of a millimeter. But the friction was the only problem, the chainline and the distance between chainrings was perfect. You can see the chainline pics I made with the single 42T and both 11-32 and 11-50

Yes, there was concern over chainline AND over the fitting of the second chainring.

... I'm not equipped to make such a small, thin spacer with 5 holes that are nearly as wide as the part they go through. That should be cut out by a laser or stamped, if you're making that. My alternative was an easier thing to make! Did it in my lathe and mill in a couple of hours - could have done it MUCH faster if I'd had aluminum available!

Chainlines depend on what frame, what rear wheel, and what rear gearing, at the very least. Further, some frames get in the way, according to rider reports way upthread.

The seller told me the most efficient internal (not pedal) RPM is 4000 (the max RPM)
I tried to measure wattage are at constant speed and different gears. It was impossible. The wattage was jumpy, very dependent on minimal torque changes, and speed. So I got off the bike, put a stand and tested with the throttle (no pedaling no torque no assist). At different constant speeds, the gear that shows less wattage is always the fastest one (11T). Or, in other words, sames speed at lower cadence is more battery efficient.

Unfortunately few places can make a test like this "the right way." "The right way" is to start with a battery freshly charged using a high-quality, consistent charger that can tell you, in either watt hours or amp hours how much current went into a battery during charge (I own such a charger), and then putting a consistent load of some long duration into the system - could be a rider on a stationary bike installation, or a robot, or whatever - keeping the loading and cadence consistent, then charge the battery and see what went into it and that's your baseline. Repeat for all testing hypotheses, then compare results. Your use of a throttle was a VERY good element to make a consistent test - just track how long it was - but with no load, you're not measuring much as spinning a wheel isn't much of a test. However, if you mounted the bike into ANY apparatus that can provide a consistent load - like a "winter rider work-out kit" - that would do it!

Hmmm... You're running an "11-speed chain?" I was under the impression that the stock chainrings were made for "7-speed chain." Please clarify if you can.

I started with a 9 speed chain.
Now I am running a 11 speed chain, did not notice any immediate problem.
Anything I need to be aware off?

Narrower chains require narrower chainrings, I think I have heard people report, and I know for sure I've heard long-time mechanics in the bike industry say that as the gears are narrowed, the teeth get taller, and there are sometimes issues caused by this. I've only been running a "7 speed chain" (which is also the older standard used on bikes with fewer than 7 gears in the back), so I have a wide chain. However, I'm sure I've read where some people have had issues trying to run their TSDZ2s with what I'll just call, "higher speed chains." ... Haven't had this issue myself but if I could, on my new build, end up with a very high rear gear count and make it work for ALL gears with ONE chainring, I'd, like you, ditch the idea of a front derailleur and just run the 52T. THAT SAID, a heavier-duty chain should last longer and given that this is a heavy-burden scenario for a chain - on an e-bike - maybe it's good to stick with a heavier-duty chain...

I'm VERY keen on your reports on this because so far as I know, you're the only person who has run so many gears in the rear with a TSDZ2.

52T 11-50 is more than great I will need to add a few more links to the chain, it gets too tight already at 52T-42 (the chain is currently calibrated for maximum length at 42T-11). So in fact 42T+52T +11-50 is not viable with a long cage Shimano M8000 and probably neither with any other rear derailleur, and it shouldn't be. 11-50 is for 1x. I will ask CONHIS MOTOR if they have other curved chainrings

This is the kind of reporting I need to hear about, and soon would be good. I have already ordered parts for my new frame but have not even received, much less used, any of them, so I can still return them... and get something "more exciting!" ... everything from front and rear derailleurs to cassettes, to shift "levers"...

BTW, I was planning on making my own front derailleur setup using a "braze-on" style system where the derailleur doesn't have a clamp for the tube and simply fabricate my own interconnection. I have the workshop for this work and know how to use the tools! 8) MAYBE I'll still do this? Hmmm... Depends on what I think of your work and how detailed you are in reporting it. So continue to do a great job at that, please!

 

[Chalo]

At different constant speeds, the gear that shows less wattage is always the fastest one (11T). Or, in other words, sames speed at lower cadence is more battery efficient.

That's only going to be true when there's no load. On the road, whatever gear lets the motor run at 80% of its free speed will be the most efficient. (So, probably not the highest part of the gear range.) All you were measuring was the friction and windage in the bike itself.

 

[Patoruzu]

I don't know where the brakes fit on an Xh-18, either, and I went to show a link to a vendor selling such a thing and then found that I must have been wrong, or they pulled the ad! I was hoping we could see in their sales photos what the wiring loom might be like but can't find it now. My bet is, you got lucky that it works! Where do you plug YOUR Xh-18's throttle into?! I plug in my (non-functional) throttle into the back of the VLCD-5.
Not sure what you mean about split-cable.

As I see it, the vcld5 gets all the wiring in one Higo connector. And some of them are bypassed through it to breaks and throttle.

I know the xh18 can have also throttle and breaks. But instead of the bypass occurring inside the display, the cable comes split (Y cable). I can confirm this for display (one end) and throttle second end. I can only presume that for breaks it is further split.

Unfortunately few places can make a test like this "the right way." However, if you mounted the bike into ANY apparatus that can provide a consistent load - like a "winter rider work-out kit" - that would do it!

How much energy is used to charge the battery does not tell much, discharging tells. I know my real life cell specs and have my approx capacity 353 AH @ 48v. My bike mounted coulomb meter will measure AH, so I will be able to test not only W as I did initially, but also WH. This will be probably my last motor testing. I have been thinking on ways to let it run alone with the throttle over some rolls and weight to have a more serious test. So far, as you said, due to the imposibility of testing while riding I ended up testing wattage on no weight/wheel weight. Far from ideal to find out the optimal cruise mode to maximize autonomy.

Once I have this value I will be able to build a lighter battery for city usage. My current pack is 7kg! Overkilling for the city. The coulomb meter was telling me today that I had still 97% charge, and that at the very current wattage, I could keep pedaling non stop for another 96 hours

THAT SAID, a heavier-duty chain should last longer and given that this is a heavy-burden scenario for a chain - on an e-bike - maybe it's good to stick with a heavier-duty chain...

My original x9 rear derailleur was damage and needed replacement. Was not sure if to go for a 10 or an 11 speeds upgrade (had to be upgrade ). But when I saw the new 11-50, the doubts vanished

But I took care to at least buy an extra-strong 11x chain (Shimano 11-Speed Chain CN-HG701). Is it really strong? It weights more than others and has less cut off weight reducing wholes. Time will tell. Had to buy 2 to have enough links

 

[squee22]

Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.

10% is is a no go. I would run out of battery with a converter before I would start feeling performance loss.
My needs are autonomy over power.

But I read one can reach 95%-97% efficiency with a switched boost converter.
Specially if the voltages are relatively close.

theoretically - yes. The datasheet for the boost converter you are using might include a chart that shows this. The bigger the gap between voltages and more variable the current draw, the less efficient it will be. The opposite also holds true.