Patoruzu said:You are not even mentioning your batteries. 36? 48?
Maybe you can run the 48v @ 36v and keep the display.
However I would still ask, why throttle at all?
I see no practical usage unless you plan to move without pedaling at all
Patoruzu said:It is not important in your case anymore, but for a single speed bike, wouldn't have been better/simpler a hub motor?
Now a question that no one dared to answer me before.
Is your boost converter "constant voltage"?
Does constant voltage bring any advantage over the decaying voltage of the battery? I would presume that with a decaying voltage battery, the controller would still take the desired wattage (as oppose to those incandescent flashlights where the light decays with the battery charge
As disadvantage, the controller will think you are always at full battery.
Daytriker said:as i'm riding a single speed track bike i decided to upgrade the plastic gear to a metal one
extrasilver, I am picking up a 36 volt/350 watt version that has developed a problem after only 6o kms of use. I am not sure yet what the problem is but from the customers feedback, "Sounds like nuts & bolts are rattling around inside." Since the nylon gear seems to be a common failure point on the TSD, it's where I am going to look first although the rider is a Senior lady so I am doubting extensive abuse. A couple of questions -
For visually inspecting the blue gear do I go in from the chainring side or the motor side?
For replacement of the blue gear to the brass gear, do I need any special tools or to add washers or shims to the gear or is it just a drop in fit? - Thank you in advance.
Patoruzu said:So, in other words, you say that the constant voltage will only give you a consistent peak wattage, and that the (non constant voltage) motor will still take similar wattage under similar non-stressing situations at different voltages?
I am mainly concerned about decreased assistance at a non-stressed sustained speeds (cruising) on low/lower bat (fully loaded touring bike, too heavy for a day long non assisted ride)
Patoruzu said:An update on my 48v 18a 4000rpm installation as promised
Patoruzu said:I took the free delivery chance and also ordered the throttle, and it works (I was not sure it would, no breaks cables, I use it for testing)
Patoruzu said:The seller also told me that the most efficient rpm was 4000, that was the only wrong information so far. Wattage testing showed that under identical speed, a faster gear uses less wattage (of course this is what I expected)
Patoruzu said:I also upgraded my 9speeds 11-32 to 11 speeds 11-50. On the hills I was very happy with the original set up, but on the speed side sometimes (not very often) I felt I needed one more speed (when cruising too easily at 35km/h)
Patoruzu said:I tested the parallel set up only for the community but I will stay 52T with 11-50 without front derailleur.
Patoruzu said:This will also allow me to better optimize the chain length and have the 52T a little closer to the motor. Just the 42T thickness and the washers. Pity the 52T is not curved, maybe because it was the "parallel" version.
Daytriker said:I am picking up a 36 volt/350 watt version that has developed a problem after only 6o kms of use. I am not sure yet what the problem is but from the customers feedback, "Sounds like nuts & bolts are rattling around inside." Since the nylon gear seems to be a common failure point on the TSD, it's where I am going to look first although the rider is a Senior lady so I am doubting extensive abuse.
Just did one for you. Enjoyaja said:Has anyone posted a video or could post a video of the sound emanating from a newish TSDZ2 motor - I'm looking at other options as I'm after a near silent e-assist to fit into my velomobile where sound is amplified, thus the quieter the better. Although it's not that loud, my TSDZ2 does whirr when under higher load. Looking at MAC and Q128H motors as well as other mid drives for inspiration, if the latest TSDZ isn't a fair bit quieter. I'm told Direct Drive are near silent but then one has issues of cogging or as someone suggested, running at very low assist (25W) so that cogging is eliminated but that is still lost power.
With the 48V motor, is one supported when one pedals at a higher cadence? I find my 36V one cuts support too early as I ride a recumbent with short cranks, thus spin them faster.
I've watched a couple of videos online of the TSDZ2, one recorded in June this year, and mine sounds quite similar; this is the TSDZ2B 500W motor so I guess it must be quite new: Noise can be heard at 03:04 onwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FFOSwGLzU
Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.Patoruzu said:So, in other words, you say that the constant voltage will only give you a consistent peak wattage, and that the (non constant voltage) motor will still take similar wattage under similar non-stressing situations at different voltages?
I am mainly concerned about decreased assistance at a non-stressed sustained speeds (cruising) on low/lower bat (fully loaded touring bike, too heavy for a day long non assisted ride)
These plastic gears are designed to fail so that the damage occurs on a cheap easy to replace part and you don't fry the motor or controller. It's like a shear pin, or a mechanical fuse... I would not upgrade this gear. It was designed to be weak for a reason. I'd adjust my riding style so it didn't fail.Daytriker said:Thanks for the feedback RT111. Once I get the unit back I'll post my findings & if it is the Blue Gear that has failed I think I will just switch it to the Brass Gear for reliability. I think it would be short sighted of the company to produce a gear that would fail so prematurely especially since it is a 'gentle rider' & only 60kms riding distance. That's what has me thinking it is likely something else.
squee22 said:Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.
I think they designed the controller with the VLCD-5 in mind and later they hacked in the XH18.RTIII said:I've seen throttle kits for either display type, VLCD-5 and Xh-18. But it certainly seems crazy to me that Tongsheng would be dumb enough to require BOTH a different controller AND a different display to get throttle (vs the non-throttle type).Patoruzu said:An update on my 48v 18a 4000rpm installation as promised
Correct, the throttle capability was there in the controller, and I had the (wrongly sent) split cable to use it.RTIII said:OK, so here, it reads as if you're saying they sent you a standard, no-throttle Xh-18 but of the wrong voltage, and when you got it replaced for free with the correct voltage, you added a throttle and it works as a proper throttle, though you have no ability to add motor-cut-out brake switches. Do I read that correctly? If so, then the only thing that needs changing out may be the display!
I did read it, but maybe I understood something wrongly, I thought your problem was chainline and distance between chainrings. In any case the washers were a proof of concept, when I realize that the friction was minimal and that not tightening the screws too much solved the friction problem. Better than 4 washers would be a ring with 5 holes. the required thickness is really a fraction of a millimeter. But the friction was the only problem, the chainline and the distance between chainrings was perfect. You can see the chainline pics I made with the single 42T and both 11-32 and 11-50RTIII said:...I find it interesting that you put washers inboard of the spider to effect clearance from the dual chainrings. ... IDK if you had read about my work before you did all that, but I was "there before you" and documented the problem you solved that way. However, do recognize that that solution has two engineering problems you may not have considered: 1) you've now opened up the internals to potential water ingestion, or at least are defeating the function of the large ring seal just inboard of the spider. And; 2) the spider will no longer be fully supported throughout its diameter by the mating face for which it was designed. This opens up the potential for fatigue cracking, which cast aluminum parts (like the spider) are known for, depending on the exact alloy, and just how "over-engineered" (or not) the part may be. ...
It is steal, but flat. A pity, because it could be curved way more than the 42T since it has nothing close to touch inwards at that diameter!RTIII said:I haven't yet seen all the new gears being offered, such as the 52T - but YOU have. I've already asked the seller, with NO reply yet; is the 52T gear steel or some alloy of aluminum? I WANT STEEL
I am not sure what you mean.RTIII said:I'm curious about this. Firstly, it's well known that the TSDZ2 cuts out at about 90 pedal RPM, so in your lower gear you could well be bumping up against that and YOU are providing the extra power? Or, maybe, you did this with the throttle? And, did you try different levels of "assist?" I'd be keen on seeing details! (One of these days I've got to get my own watt / ampere meter I can see while riding - not to mention a working throttle.)
I started with a 9 speed chain.RTIII said:Hmmm... You're running an "11-speed chain?" I was under the impression that the stock chainrings were made for "7-speed chain." Please clarify if you can.
If course I did. 52T 11-50 is more than great I will need to add a few more links to the chain, it gets too tight already at 52T-42 (the chain is currently calibrated for maximum length at 42T-11). So in fact 42T+52T +11-50 is not viable with a long cage Shimano M8000 and probably neither with any other rear derailleur, and it shouldn't be. 11-50 is for 1x. I will ask CONHIS MOTOR if they have other curved chainringsRTIII said:...Just take off the 42T (and the washers you added), and then space the 52T well inboard. You can't do as well as the curved gear, but you can move it inboard considerably. Tongsheng will have to make us a curved version of the 52T.
Patoruzu said:I think they designed the controller with the VLCD-5 in mind and later they hacked in the XH18.
Patoruzu said:I see the throttle as nothing more than an alternative/fake torque sensor at max assist level. The controller then does it's job regardless of where the signal is coming from.
Patoruzu said:I do not know where the breaks connect with the XH18 though. Or why not all VLCD-5 work with an added throttle. Maybe only the HIGO cables are different (less cables inside the HIGO = cheaper ?) ?
Patoruzu said:Correct, the throttle capability was there in the controller, and I had the (wrongly sent) split cable to use it.RTIII said:OK, so here, it reads as if you're saying they sent you a standard, no-throttle Xh-18 but of the wrong voltage, and when you got it replaced for free with the correct voltage, you added a throttle and it works as a proper throttle, though you have no ability to add motor-cut-out brake switches. Do I read that correctly? If so, then the only thing that needs changing out may be the display!
Patoruzu said:Are you saying there is an Xh-18 with input for breaks? I would have expected a different split cable for that.
Patoruzu said:I did read it, but maybe I understood something wrongly, I thought your problem was chainline and distance between chainrings. In any case the washers were a proof of concept, when I realize that the friction was minimal and that not tightening the screws too much solved the friction problem. Better than 4 washers would be a ring with 5 holes. the required thickness is really a fraction of a millimeter. But the friction was the only problem, the chainline and the distance between chainrings was perfect. You can see the chainline pics I made with the single 42T and both 11-32 and 11-50
Patoruzu said:The seller told me the most efficient internal (not pedal) RPM is 4000 (the max RPM)
I tried to measure wattage are at constant speed and different gears. It was impossible. The wattage was jumpy, very dependent on minimal torque changes, and speed. So I got off the bike, put a stand and tested with the throttle (no pedaling no torque no assist). At different constant speeds, the gear that shows less wattage is always the fastest one (11T). Or, in other words, sames speed at lower cadence is more battery efficient.
Patoruzu said:I started with a 9 speed chain.RTIII said:Hmmm... You're running an "11-speed chain?" I was under the impression that the stock chainrings were made for "7-speed chain." Please clarify if you can.
Now I am running a 11 speed chain, did not notice any immediate problem.
Anything I need to be aware off?
Patoruzu said:52T 11-50 is more than great I will need to add a few more links to the chain, it gets too tight already at 52T-42 (the chain is currently calibrated for maximum length at 42T-11). So in fact 42T+52T +11-50 is not viable with a long cage Shimano M8000 and probably neither with any other rear derailleur, and it shouldn't be. 11-50 is for 1x. I will ask CONHIS MOTOR if they have other curved chainrings
Patoruzu said:At different constant speeds, the gear that shows less wattage is always the fastest one (11T). Or, in other words, sames speed at lower cadence is more battery efficient.
As I see it, the vcld5 gets all the wiring in one Higo connector. And some of them are bypassed through it to breaks and throttle.RTIII said:I don't know where the brakes fit on an Xh-18, either, and I went to show a link to a vendor selling such a thing and then found that I must have been wrong, or they pulled the ad! I was hoping we could see in their sales photos what the wiring loom might be like but can't find it now. My bet is, you got lucky that it works! Where do you plug YOUR Xh-18's throttle into?! I plug in my (non-functional) throttle into the back of the VLCD-5.
Not sure what you mean about split-cable.
How much energy is used to charge the battery does not tell much, discharging tells. I know my real life cell specs and have my approx capacity 353 AH @ 48v. My bike mounted coulomb meter will measure AH, so I will be able to test not only W as I did initially, but also WH. This will be probably my last motor testing. I have been thinking on ways to let it run alone with the throttle over some rolls and weight to have a more serious test. So far, as you said, due to the imposibility of testing while riding I ended up testing wattage on no weight/wheel weight. Far from ideal to find out the optimal cruise mode to maximize autonomy.RTIII said:Unfortunately few places can make a test like this "the right way." However, if you mounted the bike into ANY apparatus that can provide a consistent load - like a "winter rider work-out kit" - that would do it!
My original x9 rear derailleur was damage and needed replacement. Was not sure if to go for a 10 or an 11 speeds upgrade (had to be upgrade ). But when I saw the new 11-50, the doubts vanishedRTIII said:THAT SAID, a heavier-duty chain should last longer and given that this is a heavy-burden scenario for a chain - on an e-bike - maybe it's good to stick with a heavier-duty chain...
theoretically - yes. The datasheet for the boost converter you are using might include a chart that shows this. The bigger the gap between voltages and more variable the current draw, the less efficient it will be. The opposite also holds true.Patoruzu said:squee22 said:Any power converter will cut into your battery consumption by adding a level of inefficiency so your battery will die about 10% faster, but yes it's a simple fix to keep your power output at peak value.
10% is is a no go. I would run out of battery with a converter before I would start feeling performance loss.
My needs are autonomy over power.
But I read one can reach 95%-97% efficiency with a switched boost converter.
Specially if the voltages are relatively close.