NisseMan said:I have high pitch noise in my TSDZ2, its only 2-3 first min, when the motor gets warm the noise fades down.
It been like this from start, it has only run some 300 km so far
Normal?
NisseMan said:I have high pitch noise in my TSDZ2, its only 2-3 first min, when the motor gets warm the noise fades down.
It been like this from start, it has only run some 300 km so far
Normal?
ornias said:endlessolli said:That should equal a cadence of 92 (down from 98 for a 28 rim).pxl666 said:26 rim 36 chainring 11 smallest cog - 40 kmh easy on flat and bike is great for mtb climbing
I guess it really boils down to your main use case (steep mtb slopes vs. street commuting) and in which cadence range you are comfortable - and if you use osfm enabling field weakening to still get support @ high cadence numbers.
To get back to the topic I was refering to:
The core subject here was motor capacility and burnout.
42T, creates cause for concern of motor burnout.
That's assuming people drive like idiots and don't shift enough...
Yes yes, we all know we all know better. But my point is about the general design...
42T puts a lot of responsibility on the rider and we all know "the average joe" is not thát responsible![]()
Matze_Senpai said:beemac said:Matze_Senpai said:beemac said:How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?
My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...
i use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)
Imho it's using the throttle from standstill that's going to contribute a lot to this sort of wear I would think. Using the motor only to accelerate from a standing start puts much more torque through the motor gearing than if you start by pedalling and use the motor to assist your pedalling.
I also think that brake sensors are necessary - in a car when you brake to a stop you don't just expect the engine to just stop with you - you depress the clutch (or the automatic gearbox does it for you) to disengage the motor and stop it stalling. If you don't have brake sensors and you're pedalling whilst braking or the motor is simply running on a bit - you're putting pressure on the motor gearing as it's trying to push you forward as you hold it back with the brakes - that's going to cause more cog wear...
thanks....looks like i will buy the brake sensors now! and hope this time my motor will stay good![]()
SysRQ... you're not alone with having high gearing available and it's all horses for courses. I live and commute from the top of a 500 to 600m climb over about 12kms... an average 4% but there's a few 13 to 25% climbs of 20 to 100 meters amoungst it all depending which way I go.sysrq said:ornias said:endlessolli said:That should equal a cadence of 92 (down from 98 for a 28 rim).pxl666 said:26 rim 36 chainring 11 smallest cog - 40 kmh easy on flat and bike is great for mtb climbing
I guess it really boils down to your main use case (steep mtb slopes vs. street commuting) and in which cadence range you are comfortable - and if you use osfm enabling field weakening to still get support @ high cadence numbers.
To get back to the topic I was refering to:
The core subject here was motor capacility and burnout.
42T, creates cause for concern of motor burnout.
That's assuming people drive like idiots and don't shift enough...
Yes yes, we all know we all know better. But my point is about the general design...
42T puts a lot of responsibility on the rider and we all know "the average joe" is not thát responsible![]()
I think I'm the one of irresponsible ones since I tried to climb some short 6-9% hill at low cadence on 42t/18t combination during one of the first rides in 26° ambient temperature to see how powerful the motor is and it was stalling. After that there was no choice but use lowest gears (36t, 32t, 28t) and spin which translates to 8-12Amps on most of the hills. So there is no way to tell if the magnets got weaker after one time abuse since gluing an external temperature sensor on laminations instead of deeply in the windings as most motors do will show cumulative delayed temperature response only.
But the motor doesn't stop at that time due to ramp down time. And if there is no ramp down time, riding will be jerkysysrq said:Doesn't most people instinctively stop peddalling when braking?
Maybe, but the B pedals a lot lighter above the speedlimit and it feels a lot more "tight" then my 2 older tsdz2's I already had. Feels the same, maybe even better then my first tsdz2 with the longer crank axel. What is the most reliable of the 2 tsdz2's I have. The 2nd tdsz2 I bought with the smaller axel has a lot more play in everything in the motor. And I mean a lot, the new tsdz2B feels better build. But time will tellornias said:Piper J3 said:I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
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First off:
TongSheng is known for shipping a clutch that is already barely capable of covering the load (110nm rated) if made by a good manufacturer, but ship it chinesium grade.
I've seen no evidence they started to use higher quality bearings in the TSDZ2B, nor have I seen evidence of better internal gears.
However, I do know that they moved from freely available clutches (and thus replaceable by a quality variant) to a self-designed clutch.
The company that has 0.2mm(!) tolerance on a bearing axle and isn't able to pick the right clutch, is now starting to design their own clutches... That's not a good sign.
High quality clutches are EXPENSIVE. A good quality clutch is about 1/3-1/5th of the complete price of the TSDZ2. No way they ship one of good quality now, it's simply not possible at their pricepoint.
I also call bullshit on the better internals, considering everything that is actually breaking due to design issues (circlips, tolerances etc) is still the same.
I also ride in summer, so often 30 to 40 degrees and I'm just a sheet of sweat when I get home on these days... my family doesn't want to know me until I'm out of the shower.
On a few of these days tried getting a temperature reading from the casing with a household point -and-shoot thermometer, which read around 50 to 55 from memory - not really hot to touch -
I've clocked up well over 3000k so far and have been measuring my times (on this conversion and a range of other conversions and stock bikes) and they are pretty consistant given winds and variable motivation levels, so I don't seem to have de-magnetised anything yet but will be playing with the OSF and the cooling pads as soon as my warranty is up in a couple of months... and I have the time.
w0utje said:Maybe, but the B pedals a lot lighter above the speedlimit and it feels a lot more "tight" then my 2 older tsdz2's I already had. Feels the same, maybe even better then my first tsdz2 with the longer crank axel. What is the most reliable of the 2 tsdz2's I have. The 2nd tdsz2 I bought with the smaller axel has a lot more play in everything in the motor. And I mean a lot, the new tsdz2B feels better build. But time will tell![]()
At the moment I can only hope I haven't cooked the innards. As I mentioned, I don't want to 'crack the casing' until my warrantee period is up because I'll have no hope of getting any support from the dealer once I do. On the plus side, my times remain consistant within the variables I mentioned, so I live in hope.ornias said:I also ride in summer, so often 30 to 40 degrees and I'm just a sheet of sweat when I get home on these days... my family doesn't want to know me until I'm out of the shower.
On a few of these days tried getting a temperature reading from the casing with a household point -and-shoot thermometer, which read around 50 to 55 from memory - not really hot to touch -
I've clocked up well over 3000k so far and have been measuring my times (on this conversion and a range of other conversions and stock bikes) and they are pretty consistant given winds and variable motivation levels, so I don't seem to have de-magnetised anything yet but will be playing with the OSF and the cooling pads as soon as my warranty is up in a couple of months... and I have the time.
"I don't seem to have de-magnetised anything "
50c on the casing, means you've most likely already overheated the motor or are just barely shy of doing so.
You've made the mistake of assuming that the casing temperature is the motor temperature. The actual problem with IS that the casing has barely any conductivity with the actuall motor unit. So it cannot be accurately measured the way you did it.
Unless you've an actuall temperature sensor installed on the actuall motor unit, the measurements are lawballing it by dozens in some cases.
Ianane said:At the moment I can only hope I haven't cooked the innards. As I mentioned, I don't want to 'crack the casing' until my warrantee period is up because I'll have no hope of getting any support from the dealer once I do. On the plus side, my times remain consistant within the variables I mentioned, so I live in hope.ornias said:I also ride in summer, so often 30 to 40 degrees and I'm just a sheet of sweat when I get home on these days... my family doesn't want to know me until I'm out of the shower.
On a few of these days tried getting a temperature reading from the casing with a household point -and-shoot thermometer, which read around 50 to 55 from memory - not really hot to touch -
I've clocked up well over 3000k so far and have been measuring my times (on this conversion and a range of other conversions and stock bikes) and they are pretty consistant given winds and variable motivation levels, so I don't seem to have de-magnetised anything yet but will be playing with the OSF and the cooling pads as soon as my warranty is up in a couple of months... and I have the time.
"I don't seem to have de-magnetised anything "
50c on the casing, means you've most likely already overheated the motor or are just barely shy of doing so.
You've made the mistake of assuming that the casing temperature is the motor temperature. The actual problem with IS that the casing has barely any conductivity with the actuall motor unit. So it cannot be accurately measured the way you did it.
Unless you've an actuall temperature sensor installed on the actuall motor unit, the measurements are lawballing it by dozens in some cases.
Are there any tests that will diagnose a 'demagnetised motor'?
NisseMan said:Had to open my TSDZ2, was almost dry, almost none grease at all.
Added some cooling and new grease, sound levels drops and casing get a bit warmer. Jacked up power to 600 W max.
Update, motor still pretty noisy when is cold, when heating up after few min its almost silent
Update 2; took some 500km, now the cranks start to wobble. Bearings seen real crap on this motor
Would it not be the case that an unrestricted demagnetised motor would run faster with no load (increase RPM) due to weakening of the field? I have noticed that an older high mileage hub I have appears to run about 10% faster with no load measured with speedo by lifting wheel off ground and full throttle (with fully charged battery) compared to similar test when new.ornias said:"Are there any tests that will diagnose a 'demagnetised motor'?"
Sadly enough it's not a black-and-white thing, so it can be a "bit demagnetised". For those cases there really is not test to say definitively.
I am going to suggest that there is a reference that only requires a clock or stopwatch (and a throttle/way to activate motor at full speed).ornias said:Both correct ofcoarse, but for slightly/partly demagnitised motors there isn't some sort of reference you can check when making measurements![]()
Sturmey said:3 Reduction of back emf that gives an increase of rpm at no/very low loads.ornias said:Both correct ofcoarse, but for slightly/partly demagnitised motors there isn't some sort of reference you can check when making measurements![]()
The first two effects can not be easily measured without lab equipment. However the last effect can easily be measured and compared to another similar motor or compared to itself if a measurement has been taken and noted when the motor is new.
ornias said:NisseMan said:Had to open my TSDZ2, was almost dry, almost none grease at all.
Added some cooling and new grease, sound levels drops and casing get a bit warmer. Jacked up power to 600 W max.
Update, motor still pretty noisy when is cold, when heating up after few min its almost silent
Update 2; took some 500km, now the cranks start to wobble. Bearings seen real crap on this motor
Tolerances and bearings are absolute jackshit on the TSDZ2.
There also an issue of the crank being only actually attached on one side.
Some (extra) enduro bearings do wonders.
And also consider a good clutchbearing, but those are hella expensive (like 100 bucks expensive)
In terms of tolerances:
Not much you can actually do. Currently waiting on my prototype axles from the CNC company to see if I can do a limited production run for that...
NisseMan said:Any complete list of all the bearings?
Wapous said:To make it more visual!