New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
- Thread starter larsottar
- Start date
darrick255
10 µW
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2018
- Messages
- 5
First off sorry if this has come up and I couldn't find it. There is a lot to search and i don't really know the correct terms to use to find related issues.
I have a 8 pin vlcd5 with throttle TSDZ2 kit, with about 150km on it.
When riding it one day the assist abruptly stopped working and the Screen Vlcd5 froze with 15km/h on the display and didnt update or respond to button presses.
I power cycled the battery and the screen became responsive again. showing current speed and changing modes etc. The Bike however had no assist through throttle or torque sensor.
after getting it back home I tried doing some troubleshooting With an adapter cable and vlcd6 screen and separate throttle i had on hand.
no change with a separate screen. still displayed speed and switched modes but no assist.
However i did notice that if i have the throttle Engaged and try to roll the bike backwards the motor engages and assisted. however as soon as i let go of the throttle and tried while in motion there was no assist. additionally this assist was very weak, very easy to hold the bike still with one foot lightly on the ground.
This led me to think that the blue gear was shredded and possibly causing issues with the assist being read. However when i disassembled the motor Everything is perfect as far as i can tell. all the gears are in great condition i dont see any discoloration on the controller. I did notice that the blue green and yellow terminals were hard to separate from the motor leads.
Is this a known issue? does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?
I know very little about brushless motors but to me this almost seems like the hall effect sensors in the motor is not working right.
that or blown FETs on the controller (according to an rc form regarding general purpose brushless motors)
I have a 8 pin vlcd5 with throttle TSDZ2 kit, with about 150km on it.
When riding it one day the assist abruptly stopped working and the Screen Vlcd5 froze with 15km/h on the display and didnt update or respond to button presses.
I power cycled the battery and the screen became responsive again. showing current speed and changing modes etc. The Bike however had no assist through throttle or torque sensor.
after getting it back home I tried doing some troubleshooting With an adapter cable and vlcd6 screen and separate throttle i had on hand.
no change with a separate screen. still displayed speed and switched modes but no assist.
However i did notice that if i have the throttle Engaged and try to roll the bike backwards the motor engages and assisted. however as soon as i let go of the throttle and tried while in motion there was no assist. additionally this assist was very weak, very easy to hold the bike still with one foot lightly on the ground.
This led me to think that the blue gear was shredded and possibly causing issues with the assist being read. However when i disassembled the motor Everything is perfect as far as i can tell. all the gears are in great condition i dont see any discoloration on the controller. I did notice that the blue green and yellow terminals were hard to separate from the motor leads.
Is this a known issue? does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?
I know very little about brushless motors but to me this almost seems like the hall effect sensors in the motor is not working right.
that or blown FETs on the controller (according to an rc form regarding general purpose brushless motors)
beemac
10 kW
Doesn't sound like a common fault... Screen freezing could be a loss of serial comms but that wouldn't explain the weak assist when using the throttle. Is it also weak if you use walk assist? Not sure what software you're running and so which features you have.
Controller doesn't usually get discoloured, the motor does if you've overheated it but to confirm you'd need to take the centre of the motor out to see if the insulation or whatever it is that melts has melted. If that's happened the magnets will have also demagnetized and so the motor is weak.
If the motor isn't cooked - then the most likely is your controller is dodgy... but that's just a guess
darrick255
10 µW
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2018
- Messages
- 5
I found some instructions online to test the controller (https://ebikes.ca/documents/BlownMosfets.pdf).
I went through and tested as described and it looks like the Yellow phase mosfets (high and low) are damaged.
Green phase to Positive/Red = 129kΩ and increasing as the capacitor charged
Blue phase to Positive/Red = 128kΩ and increasing as the capacitor charged
Yellow phase to Positive/Red = 0Ω with no change
Green phase to Ground/Black = 119kΩ
Blue phase to Ground/Black = 119kΩ
Yellow phase to Ground/Black = 4mΩ
I believe I'll need a new controller.
for extra detail I war running Emmebrusa OSF fork for VLCD5 with a 52v battery set for 15A draw. I also tried flashing stack 48V firmware (and checked my battery voltage was below the high voltage cut off and the issue continued.
Is there a way to check for demagnetization without completely disassembling the motor to look at enamel of the windings? The outside of the motor looks fine to me (not burned).
If you know what speed it originally ran at unlaoded (offground, etc), then for the same system voltage and throttle amount, it should run faster if the magnets have lost power. (kV increased)
Street mode is an special mode inside OSF were you can set the speed and power of the motor to be street legal (EU 25km/h, 250Wcontinu).
The power setting is discutable because there is a difference in max. Power (what is set there) and continu Power (250W).
The other mode is Off-road mode were you can set the max speed and power what is possible.
Thank you @Elinx. That was concise and helpful.
I Hate Tax
10 µW
What's up everyone. Thank you for the great source of information. I have read a lot but I'm still having difficulty choosing between a BBS02 and TSDZ2. I think I will go for TSDZ2 while OSF flashable versions are still available (PSWpower). I'm looking to convert a regular, sturdy city bike. Below I have some questions specifically about the TS; first I will describe my usage:
* I will be riding on mostly flat terrain, occasional bridge/small inclination which I would like to ascend with little effort. They are not extremely steep, but the effort I need to put in deters me from biking regularly. (It makes me go by car)
* Desired speeds are max 25 km/h (15 mph) in the city but outside crowded areas I would like to be able to go 30 or 35 km/h (21 mph). I don't need to do this entirely unassisted; my normal speed on a regular bike is about 20-25 km/h (12-15 mph). I don't want to be working up a sweat
edit: I weigh 60 kg (132 lbs) so that's an advantage
Here 250 W is legal but I don't really care. For TSDZ2 I would set street mode/off-road mode. In case I get a BBS02 I might use this.
Anyway, some questions are still with me:
1) Between the stock displays, is one better/recommended or does it not matter? (VLCD5, VLCD6, XH-18LCD)
2) 8 pin, 6 pin, does it matter for OSF? According to my reading, especially with OSF, neither brake sensors or gear sensors are a necessity. So, if I choose a TSDZ2 I'll go for the 6 pin one
3) I am currently only looking at 48V motors because it would reduce the risk of overheating, but do I really need it for the speed and situation I describe? 250W would simplify the legal situation. However I don't want extra maintenance or a very hot running 36V motor
4) I don't fully understand the "bearing mod". According to some, the play is a 'feature'. Others use 6902 bearings to reduce the wobble. This procedure is confusing to me. Maybe I will understand it once I have the thing in my hands. Anyway, what do users currently think about the necessity of such a mod?
Thank you again to Elinx who has provided a ton of information to me elsewhere (also here of course), and encouraged me to join.
Thanks readers for your patience, it's my first time attempting this. I have only ever used a rental bike which I think was cadence sensing with Hub drive. It felt weird at first, but quickly became agreeable. I think I could get used to any style of assisted bike
* I will be riding on mostly flat terrain, occasional bridge/small inclination which I would like to ascend with little effort. They are not extremely steep, but the effort I need to put in deters me from biking regularly. (It makes me go by car)
* Desired speeds are max 25 km/h (15 mph) in the city but outside crowded areas I would like to be able to go 30 or 35 km/h (21 mph). I don't need to do this entirely unassisted; my normal speed on a regular bike is about 20-25 km/h (12-15 mph). I don't want to be working up a sweat
edit: I weigh 60 kg (132 lbs) so that's an advantage
Here 250 W is legal but I don't really care. For TSDZ2 I would set street mode/off-road mode. In case I get a BBS02 I might use this.
Anyway, some questions are still with me:
1) Between the stock displays, is one better/recommended or does it not matter? (VLCD5, VLCD6, XH-18LCD)
2) 8 pin, 6 pin, does it matter for OSF? According to my reading, especially with OSF, neither brake sensors or gear sensors are a necessity. So, if I choose a TSDZ2 I'll go for the 6 pin one
3) I am currently only looking at 48V motors because it would reduce the risk of overheating, but do I really need it for the speed and situation I describe? 250W would simplify the legal situation. However I don't want extra maintenance or a very hot running 36V motor
4) I don't fully understand the "bearing mod". According to some, the play is a 'feature'. Others use 6902 bearings to reduce the wobble. This procedure is confusing to me. Maybe I will understand it once I have the thing in my hands. Anyway, what do users currently think about the necessity of such a mod?
Thank you again to Elinx who has provided a ton of information to me elsewhere (also here of course), and encouraged me to join.
Thanks readers for your patience, it's my first time attempting this. I have only ever used a rental bike which I think was cadence sensing with Hub drive. It felt weird at first, but quickly became agreeable. I think I could get used to any style of assisted bike
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1. Vlcd5 is the biggest display and the only one you can get with 6pin or 8pin, all others are 6pin.
With 8pin there is no need to mount brake and gear sensors, but with 8pin it is possible to use a throttle and with this is it make sense to use a brake/gearsensor too for safety. Other advantage of 8pin it is easier to insert a temperature sensor (instead of the throttle).
The Vlcd6 is the smallest, but the time between two buttonpushes is long, which is a disadvantage if you use OSF and change modes regularly.
2. The 36V type is enough for the speed you want on flat roads. If you keep the max. power under 350W-10A. With 48V you go a bit higher 500W-12A and there will be no overheating. With heat mods you can go up with max. power, but I think you only need that in mounty area's.
3. Because of easy assembling the motor in factory, Tongsheng has wide tolerances, which means that the 15mm bearings on a 14.9mm spindle and they have in the past shorten the spindle and removed a second bearing.
The result is you get some play and wobble which could be more in time, because the spindle isn't that hard and get some wear.
The space btween spindle and inner bearing you can fill with shims as @famichiki did, but you you have to find the exact thickness.
Also @Wapous has done a lot of investigation to improve something on another place here
But it is easy to compensate this a bit by adding two (or three) extra bearings on the spindle.
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I Hate Tax
10 µW
#3: Ohh, I hadn't come across this image. This clarifies it for me.
Thank you very much again! This advice is so great. You have experience with the motor in the same kind of terrain. I really owe you some beers.
I will have my sacrificial feeler gauge at the ready.
I guess I would go for 6 pin and limit it to 10A/12A as per your suggestion, and omit the heat sensor. I feel like it might not be of much benefit unless you are hotrodding.
My understanding has increased again. I think I have all the answers to my questions. I just need to pull the trigger and decide which one. Still the most difficult part, heh.
TSDZ2B seems to hold up decently when it is not pushed to its limits, or used in aggressive mountain biking. I never stand on my pedals or apply lots of force.
N.B. A small problem I experienced with the forum is that some old links don't work anymore.
old style of referral link doesn't work:
Code:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=7600#p1576436
Code:
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/new-tsdz2-torque-sensor-central-motor.79788/post-1576723Unfortunately, this has made it a bit difficult to find some things in this big thread, despite the excellent search function.
Yes, last week the forum is moved and you see this sort of problems if you see them under special conditions.
Better is to mention these problems here
jbalat
10 kW
Hi guys my friend is running 48v motor with KT-LCD3. Was running fine but rode through water and screen froze similar to bad communications/crossed serial wires. So after testing the connection to the speed sensor he got a puff of smoke at that join and now the screen is dead.
Sorry to hear this. So you want to know if it is the display or the controller?
Pesonally I think it is the controller with a good chance the LCD3 is gone too.
The controller is still replaceable, but the LCD3 has new hardware and couldn't be flashed anymore.
jbalat
10 kW
Hey Wapous I will have a look when I get home but any chance you have modeled the new plastic cover for the TSDZ2B ?
My friend bought some components to try and update the tsdz2 to the B version but appears it requires a different cover...
BTW has anyone else tried updating their motor to the B version ?
jbalat
10 kW
Thats not good... more wondering if anyone else has damaged their controller due to an issue with the speed sensor. I thought it was fairly low voltage ? although the port can be used to power lights so maybe its a short with the 6V line ?
I don't know the complete circuit, but the lightpower could have max. 0.5A (3W)
So you could be right about that and only that Voltage regulator is burned.
It depends how other Voltages are related to this 6V
This because the display isn't connected to that 6V
The KT LCD3 is feeded with battery Voltage.
Can you measure this battery Voltage?
If there is a fuse in the batterycase, the leds on the batterycase still work, but no power on the output.
dsjustice
10 mW
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 20
No answer on this, so I'm assuming "no". I was able to install the non-B brass gear I have using the matching "reducing shaft" which I happened to order at the same time (the reducing shaft in the TSDZ2B is *not* compatible with the non-B gear).
The proper (white) gear for the B model only seems to come as an assembly with the shaft, which makes it a lot more expensive. Given this seems to be a consumable, I'd like to find a cheaper way to do it if possible. Has anyone seen the gear without the shaft at a more modest price?
is this B version ? can this blue gear be printed to test if it will work ? i mean if the scale and design is technically correct ?
thx
do you actually know if anybody printed blue nylon and it worked ?
Janez_kocjan
1 mW
Hi guys i searched a lot but did not find an answer.
My GF has commuter bike with 36v battery. And i bought TSDZ2-B ver for her moutainbike so she would go on short mtb tours with me. I also bought additional battery mount so she can use the same 36v 15,7ah battery on hers mtb. Problem is that TSDZ2 is 48v and 750W. Is there any way to change this to 36V and 250W? Mind that this is B version. Thank you in advance!
My GF has commuter bike with 36v battery. And i bought TSDZ2-B ver for her moutainbike so she would go on short mtb tours with me. I also bought additional battery mount so she can use the same 36v 15,7ah battery on hers mtb. Problem is that TSDZ2 is 48v and 750W. Is there any way to change this to 36V and 250W? Mind that this is B version. Thank you in advance!
You'll need to change the actual motor inside the TSDZ2 for the 36v wind version, or max cadence will be only about 70rpm. You can then flash the controller with the 36V firmware. The only difference between models of the TSDZ2 are motor wind and firmware. I doubt you need to limit it to 250W though - check what the battery you have is capable of in terms of current.
If you don't have the tools to do this then it might be easier to just swap it for the voltage you want to use from where you bought it from.
Janez_kocjan
1 mW
Thanks for advice. Motor was not shipped yet. So a asked PSW to send 36V motor instead. I hope they will help.
Janez_kocjan
1 mW
They will send me 350W 36V version. Im so happy now 
. I will not need to do black magic fuckery with flashig 
.
. I will not need to do black magic fuckery with flashig .
