TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[AZUR]

Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

That controller is hard to repair and since the cost of a new one is cheap, I think is best to replace for a new one.

I also have that same BMS, I will in future use the soft lock / enable/disable on the BMS.

It is not to repair, it´s only to see if the problem is the capacitor.

Can it be done?

 

[vshitikov]

I have a strange issue with my TSDZ2 measuring battery voltage with about less 10V and also the value oscillates like +-1 volts.

I tested the same battery on another TSDZ2 and vice-versa and yes, the issue is not the battery (even because I measured with a multimeter as also the BMS has Bluetooth and shows me each cell voltage and total).

What I found is when the battery of 52V is about half empty, I get a lot of system suddenly and I also feel power cut until suddenly the system turns off.

Yes, I am doing a lot of development and testing with my TSDZ2 and I wounder if the issue could be the internal capacitor damaged / not working anymore - recently other users wrote about this possibility because of quick currents when connecting the battery terminals - which happens to me a lot because for development I do that a lot.

Any ideas? Anyone had the same issue?

Hello Casainho,
I had a situation where the engine suddenly turned off and never started again. I had to replace the controller. Now whenever I connect the battery to the engine, I previously disconnect the battery internally via the smartphone and put it in the lock state.
In my case, when the engine shut down, the battery was almost completely discharged. The engine never ran again until it replaced the controller.
As I have a faulty controller I am thinking of opening it to see if it works with the replacement of the capacitors.
Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

Did you try to reconnect via SWD/JTAG and flash the firmware again. It is most likely that you just corrupted your firmware when your MCU was undersupplied. Is your MCU detected via JTAG by ST link?

 

[AZUR]

I have a strange issue with my TSDZ2 measuring battery voltage with about less 10V and also the value oscillates like +-1 volts.

I tested the same battery on another TSDZ2 and vice-versa and yes, the issue is not the battery (even because I measured with a multimeter as also the BMS has Bluetooth and shows me each cell voltage and total).

What I found is when the battery of 52V is about half empty, I get a lot of system suddenly and I also feel power cut until suddenly the system turns off.

Yes, I am doing a lot of development and testing with my TSDZ2 and I wounder if the issue could be the internal capacitor damaged / not working anymore - recently other users wrote about this possibility because of quick currents when connecting the battery terminals - which happens to me a lot because for development I do that a lot.

Any ideas? Anyone had the same issue?

Hello Casainho,
I had a situation where the engine suddenly turned off and never started again. I had to replace the controller. Now whenever I connect the battery to the engine, I previously disconnect the battery internally via the smartphone and put it in the lock state.
In my case, when the engine shut down, the battery was almost completely discharged. The engine never ran again until it replaced the controller.
As I have a faulty controller I am thinking of opening it to see if it works with the replacement of the capacitors.
Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

Did you try to reconnect via SWD/JTAG and flash the firmware again. It is most likely that you just corrupted your firmware when your MCU was undersupplied. Is your MCU detected via JTAG by ST link?

Hi,

The first thing I did was to re-install FW through STLink. It was difficult to download from FW, it gave an error many times, but after several attempts I managed to download. But it did not work. The display did not communicate with the controller. I replaced the controller and everything was ok.

 

[casainho]

Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

That controller is hard to repair and since the cost of a new one is cheap, I think is best to replace for a new one.

I also have that same BMS, I will in future use the soft lock / enable/disable on the BMS.

It is not to repair, it´s only to see if the problem is the capacitor.

Can it be done?

I don't know.

In my case, I think the problem to measure incorrectly the battery voltage is not an issue on the capacitors. But, the voltage to much drop while pulling current current, seems the issue of capacitors. I need to replace my motor controller and then I will see if I can find anything that I can spot.

 

[vshitikov]

I have a strange issue with my TSDZ2 measuring battery voltage with about less 10V and also the value oscillates like +-1 volts.

I tested the same battery on another TSDZ2 and vice-versa and yes, the issue is not the battery (even because I measured with a multimeter as also the BMS has Bluetooth and shows me each cell voltage and total).

What I found is when the battery of 52V is about half empty, I get a lot of system suddenly and I also feel power cut until suddenly the system turns off.

Yes, I am doing a lot of development and testing with my TSDZ2 and I wounder if the issue could be the internal capacitor damaged / not working anymore - recently other users wrote about this possibility because of quick currents when connecting the battery terminals - which happens to me a lot because for development I do that a lot.

Any ideas? Anyone had the same issue?

Hello Casainho,
I had a situation where the engine suddenly turned off and never started again. I had to replace the controller. Now whenever I connect the battery to the engine, I previously disconnect the battery internally via the smartphone and put it in the lock state.
In my case, when the engine shut down, the battery was almost completely discharged. The engine never ran again until it replaced the controller.
As I have a faulty controller I am thinking of opening it to see if it works with the replacement of the capacitors.
Do you think it is possible to replace the capacitors and test the controller again?

Did you try to reconnect via SWD/JTAG and flash the firmware again. It is most likely that you just corrupted your firmware when your MCU was undersupplied. Is your MCU detected via JTAG by ST link?

Hi,

The first thing I did was to re-install FW through STLink. It was difficult to download from FW, it gave an error many times, but after several attempts I managed to download. But it did not work. The display did not communicate with the controller. I replaced the controller and everything was ok.

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

 

[casainho]

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

 

[vshitikov]

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

As soon as i saw in the code it does only for those that it uses but not for all of them. If those that are unused by the fw are corrupted the microcontroller might not even start properly and crash... But i might be wrong.

 

[vshitikov]

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

I saw in the code it does only for the option bytes that it uses but not for all of them. If those that are unused by the fw are corrupted the microcontroller might not even start properly and crash... But i might be wrong.

 

[casainho]

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

As soon as i saw in the code it does only for those that it uses but not for all of them. If those that are unused by the fw are corrupted the microcontroller might not even start properly and crash... But i might be wrong.

So, do you think the firmware can be improved on this?

 

[casainho]

@casainho

just some bainstorming... i think about the possibility of using a smartphone as controller instead of the Bafang display. for the buttons something like this could be used.
then just a small circuit that tunnels the uart packages over serial bluetooth to the smartphone and back. would that work from the latency/bandwidth side or would it require modifications of the motors firmware?

This will work, no problem with latency as all the critical stuff runs inside the motor, display is only for the configuration and display. You will need to rewrite display logic in smartphone app, plus add a hardware to the motor controller to enable bluetooth. The question is why? I cannot see any advantages for this solution. I'm currently trying to do a version where you would not need a display at all... Just power on your motor and move...

I now think that there are important features to have on ebikes that are for MTB, Enduro, etc, that are out of scope on this project - because we simple can't implement it because lack of resources and because even the big brands, with much more resources, aren't implementing them. I am referring to map navigation features and integration with other wireless sensors. The way I see is that ebikes motors can considered just like another wireless sensor, that outputs information but has also some degree of control (input).

All the bicycle sensors connect to bicycle computer (like Garmin Edge) or to a user watch (like Garmin watches), where this both devices can show information from ebike motor and also control it, like changing the assist level. This means we do not have to develop the advanced features like navigation but instead develop the integrations of TSDZ2 with the other devices.
Even for more clean and cheap ebike builds, like the ones for city riding, the user may prefer to do the initial configuration with a smart phone and then use a simple and cheap wireless remote button to power on the ebike and change the assist level.

See here a good example:
[youtube]F43oqj1Zlww[/youtube]





@Azur did explain to me that his pedal power meter pedals have both Bluetooth and ANT+ and he pairs it with his Garmin Edge bike computer / display. BUT, if using Bluetooth, not all features / information his available, he must use ANT+ to use the full potential of the pedal power meter pedals.

For a start, I would use the popular NRF52840 (similar to the one on SW102 display) that implements both ANT+ and Bluetooth, simultaneous, meaning it could connect both the a smart phone (or other sensors like the ebike battery pack "Smart BMS") using Bluetooth and also to bicycle computers and other sensors using ANT+.

This is the hardware @mspider65 used for his development:


What I would change:
1. not use the red board, as I am almost sure it is not needed because the 860C and SW102 displays are already 3.3V and they work well
2. change the black board to the one that costs 15€ on Ebay (NRF52840) that implements both ANT+ and Bluetooth simultaneous:


And talking about costs, the cheapest Garmin Edge is the 130 model and costs 140€ and has some navigation:
[youtube]CpdzxG42MVU[/youtube]

And then there are models like Edge 1030 that costs 500€ but have touch screen, color display and let you search / input an address for navigation:
[youtube]Z148dVwYr5A[/youtube]

Sure the user can also use a smart phone with a cycling computer app.

 

[vshitikov]

Try to reflash option bytes that most probably also got corrupted you can download them from eco cycles for your motor. Then reflash casainho firmware again.

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

As soon as i saw in the code it does only for those that it uses but not for all of them. If those that are unused by the fw are corrupted the microcontroller might not even start properly and crash... But i might be wrong.

So, do you think the firmware can be improved on this?

Well first let's see if the issue gets confirmed with the @AZUR user.

If it is - then we need to put a warning not to put battery voltage cutoff limit too low as it may deprogram the MCU because it is undersupplied by the DC/DC converter. We can also put in the wiki the explanation how to restore it via JTAG.
I don't think we can include it in the firmware as the firmware should start to reinitialize them and if they are corrupted already the MCU crashes right away, we cannot do anything.

 

[AZUR]

No!! Our firmware see if the option bytes value is incorrect and if so, write the correct one.

As soon as i saw in the code it does only for those that it uses but not for all of them. If those that are unused by the fw are corrupted the microcontroller might not even start properly and crash... But i might be wrong.

So, do you think the firmware can be improved on this?

Well first let's see if the issue gets confirmed with the @AZUR user.

If it is - then we need to put a warning not to put battery voltage cutoff limit too low as it may deprogram the MCU because it is undersupplied by the DC/DC converter. We can also put in the wiki the explanation how to restore it via JTAG.
I don't think we can include it in the firmware as the firmware should start to reinitialize them and if they are corrupted already the MCU crashes right away, we cannot do anything.

Yes it's true. That may have been the situation. The problem occurred when I first used the battery with the battery cutoff parameter too low. I was testing the battery parameters.

I will do the test and I will try to use the "option bytes" of the other installation that I have working on my wife's bike.

Then I give feedback.

 

[AZUR]

@casainho

just some bainstorming... i think about the possibility of using a smartphone as controller instead of the Bafang display. for the buttons something like this could be used.
then just a small circuit that tunnels the uart packages over serial bluetooth to the smartphone and back. would that work from the latency/bandwidth side or would it require modifications of the motors firmware?

This will work, no problem with latency as all the critical stuff runs inside the motor, display is only for the configuration and display. You will need to rewrite display logic in smartphone app, plus add a hardware to the motor controller to enable bluetooth. The question is why? I cannot see any advantages for this solution. I'm currently trying to do a version where you would not need a display at all... Just power on your motor and move...

I now think that there are important features to have on ebikes that are for MTB, Enduro, etc, that are out of scope on this project - because we simple can't implement it because lack of resources and because even the big brands, with much more resources, aren't implementing them. I am referring to map navigation features and integration with other wireless sensors. The way I see is that ebikes motors can considered just like another wireless sensor, that outputs information but has also some degree of control (input).

All the bicycle sensors connect to bicycle computer (like Garmin Edge) or to a user watch (like Garmin watches), where this both devices can show information from ebike motor and also control it, like changing the assist level. This means we do not have to develop the advanced features like navigation but instead develop the integrations of TSDZ2 with the other devices.
Even for more clean and cheap ebike builds, like the ones for city riding, the user may prefer to do the initial configuration with a smart phone and then use a simple and cheap wireless remote button to power on the ebike and change the assist level.

See here a good example:
[youtube]F43oqj1Zlww[/youtube]





@Azur did explain to me that his pedal power meter pedals have both Bluetooth and ANT+ and he pairs it with his Garmin Edge bike computer / display. BUT, if using Bluetooth, not all features / information his available, he must use ANT+ to use the full potential of the pedal power meter pedals.

For a start, I would use the popular NRF52840 (similar to the one on SW102 display) that implements both ANT+ and Bluetooth, simultaneous, meaning it could connect both the a smart phone (or other sensors like the ebike battery pack "Smart BMS") using Bluetooth and also to bicycle computers and other sensors using ANT+.

This is the hardware @mspider65 used for his development:


What I would change:
1. not use the red board, as I am almost sure it is not needed because the 860C and SW102 displays are already 3.3V and they work well
2. change the black board to the one that costs 15€ on Ebay (NRF52840) that implements both ANT+ and Bluetooth simultaneous:


And talking about costs, the cheapest Garmin Edge is the 130 model and costs 140€ and has some navigation:
[youtube]CpdzxG42MVU[/youtube]

And then there are models like Edge 1030 that costs 500€ but have touch screen, color display and let you search / input an address for navigation:
[youtube]Z148dVwYr5A[/youtube]

Sure the user can also use a smart phone with a cycling computer app.

Hi Casainho,





Yes it's true.

I have a pair of Pedals with a power sensor (Favero Assioma Duo) and when I synchronize them with the Garmin GPS using the "blueotooth" I can only see the 302w, which are represented in the figure, which is the total power applied in the set of the two pedals.

But when I use "Ant +" I can see all the other information (Cycling Dynamics Information) that comes in the picture, Power on each pedal, total power, etc.

I don't know why, but they made the pedals that way.





The Garmin Remote, in the figure on the bottom right, also communicates with the Garmin GPS via Ant +. The keys can be programmed for different functions.

In the two garmin devices, in the figure, it can be seen that in one the cyclist is in the Eco level and in the other in the Trail level.
You can also change the level on the touch screen.
Garmin even has the specialized symbol as this APP is for the Turbolevo bike.

The turbolevo does not have a display but it has some LEDs that indicate the level of assistance the biker is in.

The Bike Turbolevo is also paired with the Garmin GPS via ANT +.

 

[hetm4n]

Anyone still have trouble entering the torque sensor calibration on sw102? I cannot set the calibration because the system freezes

 

[casainho]

Anyone still have trouble entering the torque sensor calibration on sw102? I cannot set the calibration because the system freezes

Tomorrow I will test SW102 and I hope to be able to improve this situation...

 

[raw]

@casainho

just some bainstorming... i think about the possibility of using a smartphone as controller instead of the Bafang display. for the buttons something like this could be used.
then just a small circuit that tunnels the uart packages over serial bluetooth to the smartphone and back. would that work from the latency/bandwidth side or would it require modifications of the motors firmware?

This will work, no problem with latency as all the critical stuff runs inside the motor, display is only for the configuration and display. You will need to rewrite display logic in smartphone app, plus add a hardware to the motor controller to enable bluetooth. The question is why? I cannot see any advantages for this solution. I'm currently trying to do a version where you would not need a display at all... Just power on your motor and move...

I now think that there are important features to have on ebikes that are for MTB, Enduro, etc, that are out of scope on this project - because we simple can't implement it because lack of resources and because even the big brands, with much more resources, aren't implementing them. I am referring to map navigation features and integration with other wireless sensors. The way I see is that ebikes motors can considered just like another wireless sensor, that outputs information but has also some degree of control (input).

All the bicycle sensors connect to bicycle computer (like Garmin Edge) or to a user watch (like Garmin watches), where this both devices can show information from ebike motor and also control it, like changing the assist level. This means we do not have to develop the advanced features like navigation but instead develop the integrations of TSDZ2 with the other devices.
Even for more clean and cheap ebike builds, like the ones for city riding, the user may prefer to do the initial configuration with a smart phone and then use a simple and cheap wireless remote button to power on the ebike and change the assist level.

i agree with you: adding optional connectivity to this project would be nice, as it allows a lot new features. even if no one would implement these on the first go, the level to do so would be lowered a lot if the hardware is already there. It can also make open source firmware more accessible.
my thoughts on this:

• I currently do not plan to use any ANT+ devices, but having the connectivity options is good, as it would attract more users.
• i would go for an out-of-motor solution, so the SOC is a small box with an tsdz2 plug on one, a bafang plug on the other side. having it that way would make it simple plug-in-solution that does not require any soldering skills or motor disassembly. it would also avoid the need to build a custom motor to display cable.
• a no-solder-plug-in-solution would require some manufacturing and distribution infrastructure. the PCB could be made by a company like PCBway. what is left is adding the plugs and putting it in a waterproof case (or maybe just casting it in resin, it should be possible to flash it OTA right?). if this (sub)project becomes reality, i may be able to set something up.
• having this thing could make the display optional, so smartphone configuration would be nice. using a smartphone as display would lower the costs.
• one feature i have in mind is a "virtual temperature sensor". users with a temperature sensor can collect data using their smartphone (motor temperature, movement speed, environment temperature, weather from an weather api and used motor power). from that data it should be possible to approximate the motor heating, so overheating can be prevented just using software.
• maybe temperature and acceleration/tilt sensors can be added directly to the PCB.

 

[casainho]

i agree with you: adding optional connectivity to this project would be nice, as it allows a lot new features. even if no one would implement these on the first go, the level to do so would be lowered a lot if the hardware is already there. It can also make open source firmware more accessible.
my thoughts on this:

• I currently do not plan to use any ANT+ devices, but having the connectivity options is good, as it would attract more users.

I tough more about my usage. With the same ebike, I do both MTB on mountains and always different routes, once a month at least and I ride on the city almost every day.
- For city, I would use only the remote button with 3 buttons, 2 for assist level and other for ON/OFF -- this is a cheap and simple solution in the case anyone want to stole it. As alternative, I don't even need any remote button and I can use my Garmin watch.
- For MTB, on weekends, I can attach the GPS Garmin Edge that costs 300€ and have route map full navigation including TSDZ2 control (Garmin Edge would be like having 860C display + GPS navigation feature + high tech fitness like HR sensor, pedal power meters, VO2 max and other advanced fitness metrics).

I think the wireless TSDZ2 will have much more potential:
- for city ebikes, it can be cheaper, clean installation and so more secure
- for MTB ebikes, it can be high tech with map navigation, advanced fitness metrics and advanced wireless sensors like wireless gear shift, tires pressure sensors, suspension sensors, etc.
- or be something in between, the user chooses. For me, instead on buying a remote button, I could probably 3D print my remote button that include some LEDs to show the battery SOC.

• i would go for an out-of-motor solution, so the SOC is a small box with an tsdz2 plug on one, a bafang plug on the other side. having it that way would make it simple plug-in-solution that does not require any soldering skills or motor disassembly. it would also avoid the need to build a custom motor to display cable.

I agree, would be the easiest solution and the one I would prefer for myself. Still, the ones that want to install inside the motor, could do it.

• a no-solder-plug-in-solution would require some manufacturing and distribution infrastructure. the PCB could be made by a company like PCBway. what is left is adding the plugs and putting it in a waterproof case (or maybe just casting it in resin, it should be possible to flash it OTA right?). if this (sub)project becomes reality, i may be able to set something up.

The NRF52840 microcontroller is just like SW102, it supports easily Bluetooth bootloader firmware update. But, at the first time that bootloader needs to be installed using the STLinkV2.

For waterproof, can be something even more DIY, just a lot of black tape - my battery packs are like that and I ride with rain and clean with water and I have no issues at all.

Are you able to design the PCB? because I lack that knowledge although if you use KiCAD I can at least open the projects files and do small corrections or such.

If you want to do the PCB, then, let's create a specific thread for this new project.

• having this thing could make the display optional, so smartphone configuration would be nice. using a smartphone as display would lower the costs.

I think that for city riding is ok to use the smartphone and if you want to avoid the risk to damage it while riding, you can keep it in your pocket and see the data or do any configuration, at start or and of your trip.
For MTB, Bikepacking, etc, I want to keep my phone safe with me for my own security reasons and use another rugged device that is specific for cycling - this must be Garmin Edge because for what I saw, are the only GPS cycling computers that support users developed apps (by the way, I past I developed an app for a Garmin watch that communicated with a mobile phone app).

• one feature i have in mind is a "virtual temperature sensor". users with a temperature sensor can collect data using their smartphone (motor temperature, movement speed, environment temperature, weather from an weather api and used motor power). from that data it should be possible to approximate the motor heating, so overheating can be prevented just using software.
• maybe temperature and acceleration/tilt sensors can be added directly to the PCB.

I think it is easier to install a temperature sensor on the board, because it has some free analog pins. Then the throttle, I think it will be possible to be a wireless throttle.

I am curious for IMU, maybe with some machine learning on NRF52 and IMU we could change automatically the assist level as on commercial ebikes. For developing, then the Arduino version with NRF52 and IMU can be a good option.

Some notes:
- Like Bluetooth, ANT needs licensing. My interpretation is that if we do not sell and do not use Bluetooth and ANT logos, and do not use the trademark words, we can use it with paying the fees, which are a LOT because it also needs a lot of work and costs for certification.

- ANT has a specific profile for Ebikes, scooters, etc. We just need to implement it and be just like any other commercial ebike.


- other projects that we can learn from, for Bluetooth TSDZ2 and KT motor controllers OpenSource firmware:

https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBattery_S_controllers_firmware/wiki/05-The-BluOSEC-Android-App

https://github.com/wptm/tsdz2_bluetooth

NRF SDK includes many working examples for ANT:

 

[raw]

• a no-solder-plug-in-solution would require some manufacturing and distribution infrastructure. the PCB could be made by a company like PCBway. what is left is adding the plugs and putting it in a waterproof case (or maybe just casting it in resin, it should be possible to flash it OTA right?). if this (sub)project becomes reality, i may be able to set something up.

The NRF52840 microcontroller is just like SW102, it supports easily Bluetooth bootloader firmware update. But, at the first time that bootloader needs to be installed using the STLinkV2.

For waterproof, can be something even more DIY, just a lot of black tape - my battery packs are like that and I ride with rain and clean with water and I have no issues at all.

Are you able to design the PCB? because I lack that knowledge although if you use KiCAD I can at least open the projects files and do small corrections or such.

If you want to do the PCB, then, let's create a specific thread for this new project.

I have no idea how to design a PCB. for testing/dev'ing a breakout board would be sufficient. i was talking about a custom PCB because i thought this may be a cheaper and more customized option when buying a batch and redistributing them.

• having this thing could make the display optional, so smartphone configuration would be nice. using a smartphone as display would lower the costs.

I think that for city riding is ok to use the smartphone and if you want to avoid the risk to damage it while riding, you can keep it in your pocket and see the data or do any configuration, at start or and of your trip.
For MTB, Bikepacking, etc, I want to keep my phone safe with me for my own security reasons and use another rugged device that is specific for cycling - this must be Garmin Edge because for what I saw, are the only GPS cycling computers that support users developed apps (by the way, I past I developed an app for a Garmin watch that communicated with a mobile phone app).

i regularly show my bike to friends and they are impressed by its power and features - and even more by the price of the components. i plan to build 3 more bikes (city/tracking). using a smartphone instead of a display would make the builds cheaper while not sacrificing the features

• one feature i have in mind is a "virtual temperature sensor". users with a temperature sensor can collect data using their smartphone (motor temperature, movement speed, environment temperature, weather from an weather api and used motor power). from that data it should be possible to approximate the motor heating, so overheating can be prevented just using software.
• maybe temperature and acceleration/tilt sensors can be added directly to the PCB.

I think it is easier to install a temperature sensor on the board, because it has some free analog pins. Then the throttle, I think it will be possible to be a wireless throttle.

my idea was to avoid opening the engine and still have some kind of over temperature protection. i did install the temperature sensor on my bike and it took quite some hours (ok, first timer). thinking that i have to do this 3 more times makes me think about alternatives

I am curious for IMU, maybe with some machine learning on NRF52 and IMU we could change automatically the assist level as on commercial ebikes. For developing, then the Arduino version with NRF52 and IMU can be a good option.

yes, that is something i was thinking about too.

Some notes:
- Like Bluetooth, ANT needs licensing. My interpretation is that if we do not sell and do not use Bluetooth and ANT logos, and do not use the trademark words, we can use it with paying the fees, which are a LOT because it also needs a lot of work and costs for certification.

ah yes... this may be the main problem. i was thinking about the option to pre-build the wireless dongles and selling them in a non/low-profit manner to interested persons, so people without soldering skills can just buy and use them. maybe it works when they are sold as "dev kits", but that is surely something that has to be checked.

but one step after the other. i think i will buy an dev kit, but i do not yet know which and when. going with something arduino compatible sounds good to me (as i have only arduino experience when it comes to embedded programming). i may start by porting the existing tsdz2-esp stuff to the current firmware version. but i have other projects that i will finish first (like making the current display streetmode as legal as possible)

 

[casainho]

ah yes... this may be the main problem. i was thinking about the option to pre-build the wireless dongles and selling them in a non/low-profit manner to interested persons, so people without soldering skills can just buy and use them. maybe it works when they are sold as "dev kits", but that is surely something that has to be checked.

but one step after the other. i think i will buy an dev kit, but i do not yet know which and when. going with something arduino compatible sounds good to me (as i have only arduino experience when it comes to embedded programming). i may start by porting the existing tsdz2-esp stuff to the current firmware version. but i have other projects that i will finish first (like making the current display streetmode as legal as possible)

For what I read on the ANT FAQ, I think selling the hardware without firmware is not an issue. But who installs the firmware and if make profit, must pay, which makes sense to me - would be nice if could work for ones selling few units but I think it is not the case as there are heavy costs for certification, so, I think the best option for few units is going out of the radar, I am pretty sure it is not even good for them to have to deal with licensing and certification for a few units.

I think I will keep investigating and would be nice if we could use the same prototype hardware. As for hardware, I only have my Garmin watch for which I can develop the ebike app or simple use the ones already available. I need for sure to buy the ANT NRF52840 and I wish to go with the most smaller, simple and cheap possible, so, no IMU as I would not use it for the start.
I will share if I have some relevant news about all this.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I know you want to not use mobile phones mounted on the handlebars, but a great many of us already do and with good results if mounted inside a protective case. Could we perhaps build a bluetooth module compatible with the TSDZ2 and then fork that out to say BLEVO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWDJzwaN7vw and the Garmin units such as you are wanting to develop ?

The SW102 together with a ruggardised phone seems the perfect end result to me.

 

[casainho]

I know you want to not use mobile phones mounted on the handlebars

That is not true. I think it depends on what users wants. Sometimes can be using a mobile app and with /or specific cycling and fitness device and sensors.

The idea is using a microcontroller that provides both Bluetooth and ANT+ simultaneous, just like that Turbo Levo commercial ebike does.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Note the use of the Blackview series of waterproof and shock proof phones which are less than £ 100.00 UK

 

[HughF]

Note the use of the Blackview series of waterproof and shock proof phones which are less than £ 100.00 UK

My experience of the Bluetooth performance on the BV9000pro was a poor one...

 

[casainho]

I need for sure to buy the ANT NRF52840 and I wish to go with the most smaller, simple and cheap possible, so, no IMU as I would not use it for the start.
I will share if I have some relevant news about all this.

I just bought the nRF52840 MDK USB Dongle that was the small, cheap I could found but with good documentation.

And I found a library for NRF52 that implements the ANT+ LEV (ebike) profile.

 

[AZUR]

Hi,

I forgot to mention it in the last post, but the Garmin Remote doesn't always work well. I do not know why.
I use it mainly to change the Garmin screen, as the Garmin touch screen doesn't work very well with gloves.
Sometimes I have to press the Remote key more than once to be able to change the screen.